Higher Effiancy,why?

[DUANNE]

hi all,
i have brewing biab on my rig for 2 years and had my effiancy nailed down to 70% every time.
a few weeks ago i bought a med pressure reg(been using a low pressure one) and now on the last 4 brews i have hit 85% each time. i have adjusted water to hit the same final volume with the more vigorous boil so thats not it. nothing else in my process has changed except now i hit the boil much quicker and boil is much more vigorous.
i mill my own grain and have not adjusted the gap at all and i have brewed with domestic aussie malts in one batch,english mo in another and two with weyerman with the same result. im happy to get the extra effiancy but want to know why its happened

 

[Effect]

Are you saying that you have a higher amount of pre-boil wort? And you get that from sparging more?

 

[DUANNE]

na im getting the same amount of wort at the end of the boil,so starting with a bit more pre boil, but a higher gravity than im used to into the fermenter.

 

[DUANNE]

and biab so no sparge as such just a larger starting volume.

 

[Effect]

Maybe, just maybe, because there is more water in your BIAB system, it can hold a bit more sugar than normal. What I am thinking is that the wort before hand was saturated at a level that it just couldn't really leach out anymore sugar from your grain, but with more water it can grab just that bit more...this is just my thoughts though, and could be wrong...looking forward to hearing from some veteran brewers.

Cheers
Phil

 

[MHB]

Could be lots of things or a compound of several factors; one that I came across a couple of years ago was the municipal water supply changed, the amount of Calcium in the water halved - efficiency went to shit. The reverse could have happened to you.
You will need to go through your process and really pick it apart, or just smile and cop the better yield.
MHB

 

[DUANNE]

thanks guys, on the first 2 brews i topped up the kettle in the last 5 mins of the boil to get my volume, so first theory is unfortunatly out.
i dont know if the water has changed but maybe next time i brew i'll do the same recipe with the old reg and new rwg and look for a difference.
my only other thought as silly as it may seem is im getting better break with the quicker ramp up to boil and less sugar combined in the trub at the bottom of the kettle when the boil is finished.or am i rigt off track?

 

[browndog]

na im getting the same amount of wort at the end of the boil,so starting with a bit more pre boil, but a higher gravity than im used to into the fermenter.

If you have a higher preboil than before but the same into the fermenter it stands to reason that your gravity would go up because you are sparging more. I would not have thought 15% though that seems like a big jump and 85% is excellent efficiency.

cheers

Browndog

 

[Bribie G]

As MHB says it could be your water / pH as well. I always scored about 70% with my BIAB brews till I went RO water and could adjust the water to whatever I wanted - I now make sure there is a fair whack of calcium in there, do a mashout as well, and normally hit 80% nowadays. Probably would hit a bit higher with a bucket sparge but too much fiddling and extra boiling that would alter the character of the beer.

 

[Cocko]

Would it not be because the OP is boiling off more at a harder boil? I understand it should be a lower OG to start with but I would think it has something to do with the more vigorous boil/boiling off more as it is the only thing hat has change...

Unless you have not taken into account in your efficiency calculations/readings the larger pre-boil volume... and still have your program, assuming you are using software to calculate, set to your old pre-boil volume? Are you using pre-boil gravity to calculate efficiency?



But yeah 15% is a lot to pick up from simply changing your reg.


First thoughts/2c.

 

[Nick JD]

Just like when you open your paypacket and you're being paid 15% more ... keep quiet.

 

[bradsbrew]

When I picked up a few % of eff after changing a couple of things in my process the first thing I done was check my scales. but they were good and I now get 85%+ every time. Which was a pain in the arse and has taken me a good 8 months to allow for the extra.

Cheers Brad

 

[DUANNE]

im not doing pre boil gravitys, slack i know but before changing the reg it was predictable every time within 1 or 2 gravity points.also havent changed any of my settings in beersmith so you might have something there cocko. im not overly concerned at the change but would like to understand whats going on just to satisfy my curiosity.maybe nicks right just keep my mouth shut and enjoy

 

[Ross]

The greater volume you are now mashing with means that the gravity of the wort being retained in the spent grain is now lower & hence more sugar in your boil kettle.
The more fluid mash may also be helping a bit in getting more sugar dissolved into solution, either way the results are good & if you have consistancy...perfect.
Lower gravity beers will also give higher efficiency, mentioned just in case your later beers have been a bit lower in gravity

cheers Ross

 

[bradsbrew]

Lower gravity beers will also give higher efficiency, mentioned just in case your later beers have been a bit lower in gravity

cheers Ross

Aaah, that explains the 90% I got on a recent 3.5%er. Which once again stuffed the hop editions.

Cheers

 

[MHB]

I'm far from being an expert in BIAB having only done a couple to help me get my head around the concept.

So sorry if I don't get it but the OP clearly says he got better yield when he mashed in the same amount of water, then topped up post boil, as well as when he added more water to the mash to compensate for the higher evaporation.

Now if he got different results then yes I can see how a higher liquor to grist would cause some change, tho I'm having trouble seeing how it would make 15% difference.

Without all the details of how much grain and water went in, doing some quick guesstimation, I get 7:1 to reduce the wort gravity you get at 85% back to what he was getting at 70% (same concentration of sugar left in the malt) I think BEERHOG would have mentioned if he was adding an extra 10 L of water to a 5 kg grist.

Seriously, this one has me more than just a little bemused where's TB when you need him?

MHB

 

[Brad Churchill]

+ 1 to this theory.
Makes the most sense to me.
Previously had a saturated solution with the lower volume of water.

Though I am surprised. You would probably expect this in say a 3V system where the mash volume of water is less... Hmmmm.

Maybe, just maybe, because there is more water in your BIAB system, it can hold a bit more sugar than normal. What I am thinking is that the wort before hand was saturated at a level that it just couldn't really leach out anymore sugar from your grain, but with more water it can grab just that bit more...this is just my thoughts though, and could be wrong...looking forward to hearing from some veteran brewers.

Cheers
Phil

 

[stux]

I tend to get 83-85% in my full volume biabs. This drops in concentrated biabs.

I've always assumed that the thicker sugars have trouble sparging the grains in the stiffer mashes.

I'm not sure if you're doing a mashout, but this will perhaps increase your efficiency as well, again, it basically thins your sparge water...

 

[browndog]

I'm far from being an expert in BIAB having only done a couple to help me get my head around the concept.

So sorry if I don't get it but the OP clearly says he got better yield when he mashed in the same amount of water, then topped up post boil, as well as when he added more water to the mash to compensate for the higher evaporation.

Now if he got different results then yes I can see how a higher liquor to grist would cause some change, tho I'm having trouble seeing how it would make 15% difference.

Without all the details of how much grain and water went in, doing some quick guesstimation, I get 7:1 to reduce the wort gravity you get at 85% back to what he was getting at 70% (same concentration of sugar left in the malt) I think BEERHOG would have mentioned if he was adding an extra 10 L of water to a 5 kg grist.

Seriously, this one has me more than just a little bemused where's TB when you need him?

MHB

How do you get that from this?

i have adjusted water to hit the same final volume with the more vigorous boil so thats not it.

and

na im getting the same amount of wort at the end of the boil,so starting with a bit more pre boil, but a higher gravity than im used to into the fermenter.

Seems to me he has a larger preboil volume and therefore would have a higher post boil gravity. But certainly not 15% worth.

Ah, then I see he contradicts himself.

thanks guys, on the first 2 brews i topped up the kettle in the last 5 mins of the boil to get my volume, so first theory is unfortunatly out.

I doubt very much there has been a 15% increase, more likely an error in calculation somewhere.

-BD

 

[speedie]

maybe tb is out on the town drinkin