Help Needed Please

[mato]

Hey guys i have been here lurkin in ther back ground gathering infomation for a while now
But i need HELP
i was doing homebrew for some time now well i stoped for a year or two and have now started back up
manily i have been doing kit goo cans. and i allwasy had a sickly sweet taste to my beers and a good freind told me it tastes like golden syrup. which i tend to agree.
now since i hve been looking things up and trying new things i have put down a brew of

1 X can Coopers Pale Ale
1.5kg Liquid light mult extract
us-05 yeast
i left it for about 2 weeks in the fermenter the temp got up to 26 at one point but mainly stayed low at about 20 to 23 and when i tested the final SG it was all good and finished.
so i bottled and used the coopers carbonation drops
this was also the first time i have used glass bottles (always used pet bottles in the past)
any way 1 & 1/2 months later i put one in the fridge and tryed it yesterday and it tasts like crap
i has the same sickly tate but now not so sweet
how can i get rid of this fowl taste
oh i forgot i make very sure everything is cleaned and sterile

and out of all the beer i have tryed to brew i have only had one that turned out good
Please help guys how can i fix this ???????

also currently brewing a country brewer wet pack
(which is just and extract with some spictly grains)

any help would be great thanks

 

[kelbygreen]

if its turning out to sweet and this is the base for all your recipes I would suggest swapping some malt extract with dextrose as it ferments out totally and wont leave a sweet taste. To improve a kit you can add hops to it, I havnt had a great deal to do with hops yet but just read the description craft brewer (at the top of the page) gives to what you think you may like.

 

[Pennywise]

What were your final gravity readings? could be finishing a bit high. Also most kits are meant to be brewed with things like dextrose or some sort of brew enhancer, what you're doing is using all malt (which is a good thing), but it will leave some residual sweetness that needs to be balanced out with some hop bitterness and flavour. Without knowing the exact particulars I'd say you need to add some hops to get a bit of extra bitterness/flavour, which hops will differ kit to kit but I'd suggest something like 20g Amarilo or Centenial in a boil of about 10L with the light malt extract (not the kit). Should help balance it out a little.

 

[gunbrew]

Tricky cos what you are doing sounds ok.

I have made coopers pale ale with malt extract and no temp control same as you and it came out good.
I leave my beers in the fermenter a bit longer like 3 or 4 weeks.

Your not putting in any sugar other than the carbination drops.
I used dextrose and bulk primed.

How sure are you of your cleaning?
Do you take the fermenter tap out and have you checked inside your tap by taking it appart?
A mate of mine had infecter brews a few times before he realised the tap was the source.

Not sure hoe much help any of that is.
Hope you get back to making good beer soon.
Cheers.

 

[glaab]

the pale can has very low bitterness, the malt can doesn't ferment out fully leaving it even sweeter.
Try a can with more bitterness, like the IPA. Your recipe would be way too sweet for me, I could never drink it but some people like it. Using BE1 0r 2 will not add sweetness. Otherwise you might wanna look into doing extract brews so you have control over the bitterness/ IBUs.
Heres a rough guide to Coopers kit bitterness. Cheers

use formulae

IBU[on can]*1.7/23 *0.725=

eg , for DELETED aust bitter; 620*1.7/23*0.725= 33.2 IBU

or ; IBU on can * 0.0536,

eg , for DELETED aust bitter; 620*0.0536 = 33.2 IBU



........this seems correct if using dex/ BE , if using 1.5kg LLME increase bitterness

by approx ? 2 - 5 ? IBU to compensate for residual sweetness

due to low attenuability of LLME



ORIGINAL SERIES

coopers lager; 20.9 IBU

coopers draught; 22.5 IBU

coopers real ale; 30.0 IBU

coopers dark ale; 31.6 IBU

coopers stout; 38 IBU

INTERNATIONAL SERIES

coopers pale ale; 18.2 IBU

coopers european lager; 18.2 IBU

coopers mexican cerveza 14.5 IBU

PREMIUM SELECTION

premium selection aust bitter; 26.5 IBU

premium selection traditional draught; 22.5 IBU

premium selection sparkling ale; 26.3 IBU

BREWMASTER SELECTION

brewmaster selection pils; 22.5 IBU

brewmaster selection IPA; 38.0 IBU

 

[bum]

One of the ways some people seem to describe kit twang is an unpleasant (and not sugar like) sweetness.

 

[mato]

Wow you guys are quick answer
well as for celaning yep 100% clean made sure that was my first point of call

and with all my other brews i have put down i had used dextros and i had a sweet taste
but now with the malt extract there is no sweetness but it still taste like crap

and i have also a extract that i put down on the weekend
it's a country brewer wet pack a robust porter
see how that goes (fingers crossed)

 

[pyrobrewer]

Wow you guys are quick answer
well as for celaning yep 100% clean made sure that was my first point of call

and with all my other brews i have put down i had used dextros and i had a sweet taste
but now with the malt extract there is no sweetness but it still taste like crap

and i have also a extract that i put down on the weekend
it's a country brewer wet pack a robust porter
see how that goes (fingers crossed)

The 3 most improtant issues other than cleaning are
1.Temperture and yeast seleletion
2.Yeast selection and Temperature
3.Temperature/yeast selection

Kit supplied yeast will however give you an almost beerlike flavour profile over a very broard range of temps.
Ingredient experimentation is mostly moot if you cant replicate precise temp control
accross different batches. Also make just one change at a time helps

Sweeter beer could be due to using a low attenuative yeast strain Switch to a Higher attenuative strain for a dryer finnish

 

[mato]

The 3 most improtant issues other than cleaning are
1.Temperture and yeast seleletion
2.Yeast selection and Temperature
3.Temperature/yeast selection

Kit supplied yeast will however give you an almost beerlike flavour profile over a very broard range of temps.
Ingredient experimentation is mostly moot if you cant replicate precise temp control
accross different batches. Also make just one change at a time helps

Sweeter beer could be due to using a low attenuative yeast strain Switch to a Higher attenuative strain for a dryer finnish

in my last one i did change the yeast to a US-05
ans as i said befor the sweet taste is now gone but it still crap
any way what doe you mean by low/high attenuative yeast how can you tell the diffrence ????

 

[mato]

sorry about my bad spelling

 

[jiesu]

Can you describe the shit taste you are tasting in this latest batch ? it may help people diagnose your problem a little easier.

Also have a look at these pages as they may help you to find a cause yourself.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html

 

[warra48]

any way what doe you mean by low/high attenuative yeast how can you tell the diffrence ????

"Apparent attenuation" is the degree to which a particular yeast will chew through your fermentables.

For example, OG 1.050, FG 1.010, equals a 40 points drop, or 80% apparent attenuation, rather high.
On the other hand, OG 1.050, FG 1.018, equals a 32 point drop, or 64% apparent attenutation, rather low.

It is called "apparent", because it only measure the actual gravities, and doesn't take account of the different densities between wort and alcohol. However, to get the actual attenuation would take better scientific measurement than we need to concern ourselves with. Apparent attenuation is good enough for us.

If you want a brew where you wish to cut down the perceived sweetness, choose a yeast with a higher apparent attenuation.
The yeast manufacturers websites will all give you the usual expected ranges for their various yeasts.

 

[pyrobrewer]

"Apparent attenuation" is the degree to which a particular yeast will chew through your fermentables.

For example, OG 1.050, FG 1.010, equals a 40 points drop, or 80% apparent attenuation, rather high.
On the other hand, OG 1.050, FG 1.018, equals a 32 point drop, or 64% apparent attenutation, rather low.

It is called "apparent", because it only measure the actual gravities, and doesn't take account of the different densities between wort and alcohol. However, to get the actual attenuation would take better scientific measurement than we need to concern ourselves with. Apparent attenuation is good enough for us.

If you want a brew where you wish to cut down the perceived sweetness, choose a yeast with a higher apparent attenuation.
The yeast manufacturers websites will all give you the usual expected ranges for their various yeasts.

Thanks warra, Ta

 

[Screwtop]

Sweeter beer could be due to using a low attenuative yeast strain Switch to a Higher attenuative strain for a dryer finnish

True, but the fermentability of the wort is the determining factor in the degree of apparent attenuation a particular yeast strain will achieve. Fermentability of some extracts can be as low as 62%.

Fermentability can be improved using kit/extract by the addition of some simple sugar. Precisely why kits of old were mixed with cane sugar in an effort to achieve dryness in the finished beer. However lots of cane sugar mixed with the extract and fermented with a yeast strain which will tolerate a wide temp span, and usually fermented at ambient temps in the high 20s, then bottled usually a little prematurely at around a week in many cases, produced a beer which was a bit fizzy, funky and cidery. Nothing wrong, just what the recipe, yeast strain and fermentation regime etc should produce. A little simple sugar such as dextrOSE added to a kit/extract recipe and fermented with a good clean yeast with reasonable attenuative qualities at a stable and appropriate temperature and allowed to ferment out and rest for a week for the yeast to clean up, should produce a reasonable beer.

Cheers,

Screwy

 

[Nick JD]

True, but the fermentability of the wort is the determining factor in the degree of apparent attenuation a particular yeast strain will achieve. Fermentability of some extracts can be as low as 62%.

Fermentability can be improved using kit/extract by the addition of some simple sugar. Precisely why kits of old were mixed with cane sugar in an effort to achieve dryness in the finished beer. However lots of cane sugar mixed with the extract and fermented with a yeast strain which will tolerate a wide temp span, and usually fermented at ambient temps in the high 20s, then bottled usually a little prematurely at around a week in many cases, produced a beer which was a bit fizzy, funky and cidery. Nothing wrong, just what the recipe, yeast strain and fermentation regime etc should produce. A little simple sugar such as dextrOSE added to a kit/extract recipe and fermented with a good clean yeast with reasonable attenuative qualities at a stable and appropriate temperature and allowed to ferment out and rest for a week for the yeast to clean up, should produce a reasonable beer.

Cheers,

Screwy

+1

When I do all-extract brews I have a 2:1 ratio of LDME and Dextrose for this very reason. Even they finish high.

Kits are designed to have 1kg of sugar added.

 

[Mobbee007]

When I do all-extract brews I have a 2:1 ratio of LDME and Dextrose for this very reason. Even they finish high.

Kits are designed to have 1kg of sugar added.

+1
I have also been told this by my more experienced mates and its worked pretty well for me so far.

 

[Jamieman]

Mato,

Pale ale is my staple brew.
It's the one i do to maintain my stock as a quaffer while i experiment with other kits etc

The standard yeast is a mix of ale & lager yeast & favours temps between 20 & 24 deg.
I have found anything above 26 deg on the stick on thermometer it starts to get to fruity, sweet, banana like.
I have also found the stick on thermometer is a better indication of ambient temp than wort temp.
With the a/c going flat out after a hot day, i could get the stick on thermometer to show 2 - 3 deg less than actual wort temp.

Pale Ale is one of the sweeter kits to start with as the other guys mentioned.
In summer, i have been adding a 20g dry hop bag of Pride of Ringwood & this ups the bitterness just a smidge.

I normally only ever use BE2 with this kit, but have been adding LDM of late as a trial.

 

[manticle]

Throw in some bittering hops and go with the extra dextrose as suggested by screwtop.

The sweetness, if not incorrectly described infection or kit twang, is probably too much unfermentable product coupled with not enough balancing bittering. You may also be tasting some fruity esters due to the higher temps.

As a test - do a kit and kilo brew (kit plus kilo of dextrose or brew enhancer) with the US05. Keep the temp down to no higher than 22 and see if you nail it. If you don't it's probably old kits or infection.

 

[Siborg]

I've had this problem, although not as bad, with my first few (and consequentially last) kit brews.

From what I've learnt on these forums, malt isn't 100% fermentable and will leave residual unfermented sugars in the beer. Dextrose is 100% fermentable. So in the initial kit, add dextrose (also called glucose or corn sugar) and water.

Try boiling some hops. It involves adding the can to 5 or so litres of water, boiling for some time while adding hops at different times. 60min additions are for bittering, 20mins for flavour and 0 mins for aroma. I'm sure some more experienced brewers can clarify/elaborate, but it isn't that hard to do and it will help balance out the sweetness a bit, as already mentioned.

If you've got a reasonably large pot, try some partial mashes. I did one not long ago (waiting on it to carb) and I used dextrose to prime. I'm hoping this won't be too sweet (I used 1.5kg of light dry malt extract as well as 2.2kg of grains). It should be balanced out by the tettnanger hops.

 

[mato]

ok so what sort of combo of dry malt and dextros would you guys use 50/50 or somthing like 70/30 mix
i think i may make up two more brews one with just detros and one with a combo of dry malt and dex