help choosing the right PID etc

[philistine]

Hey Dudes,
I know Im not the first to post a thread like this, but I've been searching past threads and keep getting a bit lost, so I just thought Id ask fresh.

I've built a small external HEX to be used in a herms rig which uses a 3000w element and I now want to build a controller for it.
Basically all I want to know is:

Will this one be ok?

(EDIT: sorry, the link doesnt show which model/package. Im specifically looking at the last one on the list ---> "ITC-100VH + K + 25A SSR + Heat Sync"

My main concerns are:
-I already have a different PT100 probe that has a very convenient 1/2" thread, but it has 3 wires

-Im using a 3000w element, so not sure if the 25A SSR is good enough...? That particular seller has a package deal with a 40A SSR, but it doesnt come with a heat sync

-From my limited reading, I have discovered that I need to make sure the PID has SSR output as opposed to relay output - Im assuming that this one uses SSR output...? (dont know how to figure it out)

Im pretty 'green' when it comes to this type of stuff, so sorry if my questions seem dumb!
I know the Auber gear is 'the tits' but its a lot more expensive etc.
Also wondering if someone could explain what a 'ramp/soak' unit is and how it differs from bog-standard units...?

Any help would be much appreciated! Cheers

 

[stilvia]

I already have a different PT100 probe that has a very convenient 1/2" thread, but it has 3 wires
The PID linked will take a PT100 (the PT100 sensor is also an option on the ebay listing)

Im using a 3000w element, so not sure if the 25A SSR is good enough...? That particular seller has a package deal with a 40A SSR, but it doesnt come with a heat sync
The calc for amps is watts/voltage. In your case 3000/220 = 13A. A 25A SSR will be good enough.

From my limited reading, I have discovered that I need to make sure the PID has SSR output as opposed to relay output - Im assuming that this one uses SSR output...? (dont know how to figure it out)
The listing states that it has one SSR output. If you look at the specs it also states DC 12V, 30mA as output. The SSR requires 3-24v DC so this is all fine.

 

[MartinOC]

With the "bog-standard" units, you have to manually change any changes in temperature you want for step-mashing. The Ramp/Soak ones are programmable to go through a succession of temperature rests.

 

[SmithyA]

I've been where you are right now with a HERMs system about 12 months ago. I went ahead and bought eBay PIDs similar to what you're looking at and have had to replace them because they failed (temps jumping up and down, failing to get a reading from the temp probes and things like that which make brewing impossible). So feeling rather burnt by the eBay quality, I went to Auber instruments (there are much more expensive units out there than Auber) and purchased two standard PIDs and one ramp/soak PID and got their PT100 RTD temp probes and couldn't be happier with the quality. Honestly, I wish I had just bought these to begin with. Yep definitely more expensive, but the more I buy things from eBay and have them fall apart and break in a short period of time, the more I'm convinced that there is a legitimate correlation between price and quality. Worth considering. That being said, I did get some good use out of my eBay PIDs and I always had plans to upgrade to better equipment once I could prove to myself I could produce good beer with it.

On another note, if you're green with some of the fundamentals of electronics, give some serious consideration to finding a friend/relative who is either an electrician or very confident around electronics. 240v if wired incorrectly can become lethal and there's no second chances with it. I put months of study into it before I went ahead and wired it and had my two brothers who are extremely confident with combined experience of 50 years in electronics and electrical work cast an eye over it before I plugged any thing in. They could have saved me those months and wired it themselves, but I enjoy the fact I can learn all kinds of different things with this hobby and enjoyed the opportunity to learn.

All the best mate!

 

[philistine]

Cheers guys - thats exactly what I needed to know.

Re; SmithyA's post - I hear ya when it comes to cheap stuff.... I am still considering Auber.... Though I was under the impression that the Inkbird brand was a bit better than the no-name and REX stuff.. Do you reckon they're still not worth it?

 

[SmithyA]

Cheers guys - thats exactly what I needed to know.

Re; SmithyA's post - I hear ya when it comes to cheap stuff.... I am still considering Auber.... Though I was under the impression that the Inkbird brand was a bit better than the no-name and REX stuff.. Do you reckon they're still not worth it?

Yeah I've seen the Inkbird brand around, to be honest I haven't heard any bad reviews about it. That's not to say there isn't any I guess. And for full disclosure, the eBay PIDs I got were the 'REX' brand and they are flimsy and cheap. Inkbird might be a good middle ground? Given you only need the one for the HEX you may as well give it a go

 

[Nebes]

Hi mate just recently finished my control panel used auber pids an yes they were expensive but i think they are worth the money

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/90558-herms-control-panel/

 

[MartinOC]

Hi Gents,

I've recently played with the Inkbird unit for doing stepped-mashes. For the price & what it'll do, it's not bad.

It won't ramp to a temperature & then hold for a specified time before progressing to the next step (ie. you need to know your system's ramp speeds/times & add that to the rest-time).

Also, it's basically a glorified STC-1000, so you're going to get fluctuations above/below your target temperature, which is where a ramp/soak PID will give you that exact control.

I guess it comes down to how much control you actually want to achieve & how much you want to spend to get it. You'll end-up with beer anyway you choose.

 

[Camo6]

Hi Gents,

I've recently played with the Inkbird unit for doing stepped-mashes. For the price & what it'll do, it's not bad.

It won't ramp to a temperature & then hold for a specified time before progressing to the next step (ie. you need to know your system's ramp speeds/times & add that to the rest-time).

Also, it's basically a glorified STC-1000, so you're going to get fluctuations above/below your target temperature, which is where a ramp/soak PID will give you that exact control.

I guess it comes down to how much control you actually want to achieve & how much you want to spend to get it. You'll end-up with beer anyway you choose.

Hey Martin, just to clarify, which model Inkbird are you using and is it actually a PID controller or are they just advertising it with PID added to the name of the unit?
A standard PID controller should still adapt to temp fluctuations to tune a system as opposed to an on/off style controller like the STC. Curious as I just checked their website and didn't see much info on PID logic in their description. (PS I'm am not an electrical engineer and may be way off the mark.)

FWIW, I took fellow brewers advice and went with Auber (luckily when the Aussie dollar was strong) and are very happy with the performance.

Ramp/soak function, like MO'C mentions earlier, just allows you to program in a number of temp/time steps which is handy for automated step mashing. A Godsend as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Zorco]

Cheers guys - thats exactly what I needed to know.

Re; SmithyA's post - I hear ya when it comes to cheap stuff.... I am still considering Auber.... Though I was under the impression that the Inkbird brand was a bit better than the no-name and REX stuff.. Do you reckon they're still not worth it?

Ink birds appear to be Rex units with a new name.

 

[Zorco]

I've been where you are right now with a HERMs system about 12 months ago. I went ahead and bought eBay PIDs similar to what you're looking at and have had to replace them because they failed (temps jumping up and down, failing to get a reading from the temp probes and things like that which make brewing impossible). So feeling rather burnt by the eBay quality, I went to Auber instruments (there are much more expensive units out there than Auber) and purchased two standard PIDs and one ramp/soak PID and got their PT100 RTD temp probes and couldn't be happier with the quality. Honestly, I wish I had just bought these to begin with. Yep definitely more expensive, but the more I buy things from eBay and have them fall apart and break in a short period of time, the more I'm convinced that there is a legitimate correlation between price and quality. Worth considering. That being said, I did get some good use out of my eBay PIDs and I always had plans to upgrade to better equipment once I could prove to myself I could produce good beer with it.

On another note, if you're green with some of the fundamentals of electronics, give some serious consideration to finding a friend/relative who is either an electrician or very confident around electronics. 240v if wired incorrectly can become lethal and there's no second chances with it. I put months of study into it before I went ahead and wired it and had my two brothers who are extremely confident with combined experience of 50 years in electronics and electrical work cast an eye over it before I plugged any thing in. They could have saved me those months and wired it themselves, but I enjoy the fact I can learn all kinds of different things with this hobby and enjoyed the opportunity to learn.

All the best mate!

This and always this.
I chose omron because I've used their process control gear on projects.

I couldn't be happier. But three times the price. It's that instant gratification thing. Buy cheap and go! But save for another two or three pay cycles and you get something excellent for a very long time.

Nana taught me this...... It started with shoes. It works every damn time and life is more enjoyable.

I'm not prescribing omron, but I would seriously consider auber.

 

[MartinOC]

Hey Martin, just to clarify, which model Inkbird are you using and is it actually a PID controller or are they just advertising it with PID added to the name of the unit?
A standard PID controller should still adapt to temp fluctuations to tune a system as opposed to an on/off style controller like the STC. Curious as I just checked their website and didn't see much info on PID logic in their description. (PS I'm am not an electrical engineer and may be way off the mark.)

FWIW, I took fellow brewers advice and went with Auber (luckily when the Aussie dollar was strong) and are very happy with the performance.

Ramp/soak function, like MO'C mentions earlier, just allows you to program in a number of temp/time steps which is handy for automated step mashing. A Godsend as far as I'm concerned.

I tested the ITC-310T (the plug & play, programmable unit).

Like I said, it's basically a glorified STC-1000, so there's no PID logic & it will just switch on/off. Hence, you get fluctuations around the set-point.

 

[Glomp]

The Inkbird ITC-310T is very similar to the STC1000 and is not a pid.

I have 2 pids . The rex and a sestos which I believe is built by Inkbird. You can see that Inkbird sells the Sestos.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PID-Digital-Temperature-Controller-D1S-VR-220-thermostat-brewing-220v-Temp-AU-/322151574217?hash=item4b01baeac9:g:9IIAAOSwMNxXYPRD

The Rex is a piece of crap so don't go anywhere near it. The one I got off ebay could only take K thermocouples and not the PT-100 ones that you want.

The sestos looks the goods and once tuned in works like a charm. The instructions for use are terrible but there are some english interpretations available from the net.

 

[Tex083]

I have been using 2 Auber PID's in my brewery for 2 years, never had a fault with them. Easy to use and comes with an English manual. The probes they sell are fantastic I have 2 of the detachable ones makes cleaning and moving easy.
Go with Auber and you won't look back

 

[Zorco]

It is interesting what Tex083 points out regarding detachable probes. You're welcome to review my misfortunes in my lessons learnt post on this matter.

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/91045-lessonlearnt-temperature-probe-connectors/

Auber must have accounted for the impedance change at the junction of the conductor to the connector. This is important engineering and the benefit of a detachable penis can't be understated.

 

[SmithyA]

It is interesting what Tex083 points out regarding detachable probes. You're welcome to review my misfortunes in my lessons learnt post on this matter.

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/91045-lessonlearnt-temperature-probe-connectors/

Auber must have accounted for the impedance change at the junction of the conductor to the connector. This is important engineering and the benefit of a detachable penis can't be understated.

Your linked thread may have solved my cheap PID issues I had. I kept them in case I could use them for another project.

You've dropped one of the funniest autocorrects I've seen in a long time. I still can't stop laughing! Lol

 

[Zorco]

'Twas erected on hurpose.
In God we thrust.

 

[mofox1]

If you are not looking for automated step mashing, I'm a satisfied Sestos PID user. I did go auber probes though.

My step mashing just involves a couple of button presses at 'x' min into the mash.... h34r: ;-)