Harris 601 Regulator

[drag]

I have put together a keg system with a harris reg and are wondering whether its normal for the high pressure guage to drop to 0 over night if the bottle is turned off.
The low pressure guage stays at serving pressure, so I suspect its not leaking out through the out lines, plus there is a one way valve about 300mm after the reg.
What Im mainly worried about is wasting gas if I leave the bottle on to carb the second keg.
Have tried the soapy water but no such luck to find the problem.
Is this leak not even worth worrying about?

 

[user 1153]

I have put together a keg system with a harris reg and are wondering whether its normal for the high pressure guage to drop to 0 over night if the bottle is turned off.

Sounds normal to me.
My 601 displays the same behaviour and my bottles last well over a year.

 

[chovain]

I have put together a keg system with a harris reg and are wondering whether its normal for the high pressure guage to drop to 0 over night if the bottle is turned off.
The low pressure guage stays at serving pressure, so I suspect its not leaking out through the out lines, plus there is a one way valve about 300mm after the reg.
What Im mainly worried about is wasting gas if I leave the bottle on to carb the second keg.
Have tried the soapy water but no such luck to find the problem.
Is this leak not even worth worrying about?

I reckon your beer is probably slowly absorbing a little bit of gas, causing the reg to shuffle a bit at a time from the high-pressure side of the reg. With the bottle valve closed, that high-pressure side will quickly run down. Once the bottle-side gas runs out, the keg-side pressure will likely drop just enough to stop the beer from absorbing more gas.

I'd be slightly concerned if the pressure is actually dropping all the way to zero without removing the reg from the bottle (since the reg is passive, it can't possibly shift gas from a low pressure side to a high-pressure side without breaking the laws of thermodynamics).

It's possible it's just error in the gauge, but you might want to try this: Disconnect the kegs from the gas line, pressurise the lines at about 200-250kPa, and close the valve on the bottle. If the bottle pressure still drops to 0 without affecting the line pressure, then you likely have a leak either at the connection to the bottle, or in the regulator itself. If both sides drop, then you've got a leak on the keg-side. If the pressure holds, then either everything is good with the gas system: either my original suggestion is right, or there's a slightly bad seal on one of your kegs.

 

[Cracka]

Sounds normal to me.
My 601 displays the same behaviour and my bottles last well over a year.

:icon_offtopic: Just interested in What size cylinder do you have Troy.

 

[Screwtop]

Pretty sure my Harris and Micromatic both do this if the gas is turned off at the cylinder.

 

[chovain]

Pretty sure my Harris and Micromatic both do this if the gas is turned off at the cylinder.

They shouldn't if they're not connected to kegs. I can think of a bunch of things that would cause it to happen over a long period of time (wild temperature fluctuations, for example), but in a stable system, gas shouldn't be released. Even in an unstable system (kegs attached), there should still be some positive pressure in the inlet.

 

[drag]

Ok will do some more checks then.

 

[user 1153]

:icon_offtopic: Just interested in What size cylinder do you have Troy.

It's that second size up one from BOC.... not sure of the exact litres. I'll check tonight and post.

 

[Screwtop]

They shouldn't if they're not connected to kegs. I can think of a bunch of things that would cause it to happen over a long period of time (wild temperature fluctuations, for example), but in a stable system, gas shouldn't be released. Even in an unstable system (kegs attached), there should still be some positive pressure in the inlet.

Had to go and test them as I know I've often seen the cylinder pressure guage at zero. Both the Harris and Micromatic: Disconnected from kegs, gas on, both guages activate. Turn gas off, let pressure off by venting at the QD, the pressure drops in both guages. Connect the QD to the keg, gas on, both guages activate. Vent off pressure at the keg, pressure drops off to zero in the cylinder guage first before the pressure starts to drop in the regulator guage, it was possible to drop the cylinder pressure to zero without any significant drop in the keg pressure displayed on the regulator guage.

 

[chovain]

it was possible to drop the cylinder pressure to zero without any significant drop in the keg pressure displayed on the regulator guage.

Hmm - is anyone with some physics background able to explain this? My logic: It takes energy to increase the pressure of a gas. If we assume the gauge is showing pressure relative to the surrounding atmosphere, the only way the pressure on the intake is going to equalise with the external pressure without adding energy to the system, is if it vents into the atmosphere... I suspect there's something fundamental I'm not getting here... Another posibility is that the gauge shows pressure relative to keg-side, but that would be silly, and the intake gauge would show lower pressure when carbonating.

Regardless, the test I proposed should still help rule out a leak, as it really shouldn't lose pressure if the system is closed (no kegs, bottle valve closed, leaving the release valve alone). Lots of fluctuations in atmospheric pressure could produce a slow leak, but that should be insignificant over night.

 

[SJW]

I have put together a keg system with a harris reg and are wondering whether its normal for the high pressure guage to drop to 0 over night if the bottle is turned off.
The low pressure guage stays at serving pressure, so I suspect its not leaking out through the out lines, plus there is a one way valve about 300mm after the reg.
What Im mainly worried about is wasting gas if I leave the bottle on to carb the second keg.
Have tried the soapy water but no such luck to find the problem.
Is this leak not even worth worrying about?

The short answer is NO. You dont need to worry this is normal. And NO I dont know why the high pressure gauge drops to 0 when the bottle is turned off, and further more I dont care. When I leave the bottle OFF and the reg ON at serve pressure the low pressure gauge will drop a little until its up to full carbonation or balanced.
I just leave my serve pressure at 50kpa and turn the bottle off. This is good for at least 6 beers then I just turn the gas bottle on to re-pressurise the kegs back up to 50kpa. Not that I have a leak but it just feels safer to me.

Steve