GUTEN

[Silverfox]

Come on, do you really think that this is actually an issue in this day and age?
The vast majority of modern malts that the vast majority of brewers will be using are modified well enough by the maltsters that SMM levels (and therefore DMS later on) are negligible. Is DMS really an issue anymore, outside of less modified malts from Europe?

I think if that were the case, every man and his dog would be brewing with the lid on for the whole process and you would have SFA boil off. Theres probably a reason why >95% of homebrewers dont boil with the lid on.

 

[NC1984]

4.5kg grain bill, 16Lmash, 19L sparge, 25 L batch

Am I trippin here or is this what we are getting from these machines

 

[altone]

Am I trippin here or is this what we are getting from these machines

Depends how you use them I guess.
Seems to be a lot of water loss there though unless it was boiled for a long time and at 2500w - I boil at 1900w.
edit: ignore the water loss thing I misread your first quote but are you boiling with the lid on? I don't.
I've mainly done 4.2k grain 22l mash 5l sparge for around an 18l batch in the 30l unit as I like to do keg sized batches.
But you can fit 8Kg plus of grain in them if you try and with a full kettle at mash and a decent sparge you could get a bigger batch out of it.

 

[NC1984]

Depends how you use them I guess.
Seems to be a lot of water loss there though unless it was boiled for a long time and at 2500w - I boil at 1900w.
edit: ignore the water loss thing I misread your first quote but are you boiling with the lid on? I don't.
I've mainly done 4.2k grain 22l mash 5l sparge for around an 18l batch in the 30l unit as I like to do keg sized batches.
But you can fit 8Kg plus of grain in them if you try and with a full kettle at mash and a decent sparge you could get a bigger batch out of it.

I had the lid off for both mash and boil

Ha I wrote down my numbers wrong, it was 16L mash and 19L sparge sorry,

Boil at about 2300w

The recipe was straight out of graham wheelers book and quoted total liquor as 35.2 to achieve 25L batch, I’m just amazed it all went to plan, OG higher than I was chasing, should have been 1040,

 

[altone]

I had the lid off for both mash and boil

Ha I wrote down my numbers wrong, it was 16L mash and 19L sparge sorry,

Boil at about 2300w

The recipe was straight out of graham wheelers book and quoted total liquor as 35.2 to achieve 25L batch, I’m just amazed it all went to plan, OG higher than I was chasing, should have been 1040,

Nice! That brew is a pretty good drop too. I'm just doing APA's atm with OG around 1.050, but next is going to be an experimental porter.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I had the lid off for both mash and boil

Ha I wrote down my numbers wrong, it was 16L mash and 19L sparge sorry,

Boil at about 2300w

The recipe was straight out of graham wheelers book and quoted total liquor as 35.2 to achieve 25L batch, I’m just amazed it all went to plan, OG higher than I was chasing, should have been 1040,
View attachment 113615

Doing a dry Irish stout next but will fit that recipe for London Pride in within the week.

 

[NC1984]

Doing a dry Irish stout next but will fit that recipe for London Pride in within the week.

It’s my favourite beer, I have tried many recipes for this and haven’t nailed it yet, fingers crossed

 

[Frangalooma]

Yes there are videos of people doing that with the Ace on youtube.

So it can handle boiling wort? If it can't how do you sanitise the pump system after the mash to recirculate the wort post boil. For example I to your fermenter.

 

[goatchop41]

I think if that were the case, every man and his dog would be brewing with the lid on for the whole process and you would have SFA boil off. Theres probably a reason why >95% of homebrewers dont boil with the lid on.

Yeah, because they all read and repeat back the same stuff that may have been true 20 years ago, but isn't necessarily true now...it's just a feedback loop - someone says it, new brewers read it, then they repeat it to other new brewers.
Talk to all of the no boil sour brewers/people who do abbreviated boils and see how many of them get DMS

 

[altone]

Yeah, because they all read and repeat back the same stuff that may have been true 20 years ago, but isn't necessarily true now...it's just a feedback loop - someone says it, new brewers read it, then they repeat it to other new brewers.
Talk to all of the no boil sour brewers/people who do abbreviated boils and see how many of them get DMS

So you think it's like the "Throw away mussels that don't open when they are cooked" story.
It went into a cookbook and everyone took it as gospel even though it's not really the case and people just pass it on to others still.
Except in this case it was true some time ago, but as malts improved it's an unnecessary thing that is perpetuated by brewers.

 

[Wolfman1]

Yeah, because they all read and repeat back the same stuff that may have been true 20 years ago, but isn't necessarily true now...it's just a feedback loop - someone says it, new brewers read it, then they repeat it to other new brewers.
Talk to all of the no boil sour brewers/people who do abbreviated boils and see how many of them get DMS

It’s also applying commercial brewing practises to home brew set ups. Megaswill kettles have steam hoods and the condensed water smells but the grain bills are orders of magnitude different. I have the lid on my urn ajar so it’s a compromise for me.

So you think it's like the "Throw away mussels that don't open when they are cooked" story.
It went into a cookbook and everyone took it as gospel even though it's not really the case and people just pass it on to others still.
Except in this case it was true some time ago, but as malts improved it's an unnecessary thing that is perpetuated by brewers.

Brulosophy did an podcast on this and they couldn’t pick anything from closed lids but they talked about the condensed water from big brew houses steam hoods smelling pretty bad.
I think it’s something that doesn’t look like it happens on home brew scale with modern Malts.
I leave my urn lid ajar mainly to keep things out as much as anything. I’ve fished a dead moth out of one brew but it went down okay at the party

 

[goatchop41]

Except in this case it was true some time ago, but as malts improved it's an unnecessary thing that is perpetuated by brewers.

Yep, that's exactly what I'm saying. Most malts these days are modified well enough that they have very little SMM.

It's just one of the many ongoing myths within homebrewing, that make no sense scientifically/chemically (eg. squeezing the bag when doing BIAB will extract tannins; leaving dry hops in for too long will make your beer taste grassy), but are so often said that everyone just believes it without actually questioning its validity

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Best advice to give any newbie, don't listen to the plebs, and we are all plebs, research, Wiley on line library has plenty to offer and so has this bloke. A lot to go through but around the 13.55 time line is the one to watch.

 

[goatchop41]

Best advice to give any newbie, don't listen to the plebs, and we are all plebs, research, Wiley on line library has plenty to offer and so has this bloke. A lot to go through but around the 13.55 time line is the one to watch.

It's all well and good for him to say what he says, but it doesn't really counter the point that I'm bringing up. Yes, you do need to boil and allow the vapour to escape in order to avoid issues with DMS - if there is enough SMM to cause issues in the beer with DMS later on.
At no point in the clip (unless I just didn't listen for long enough), does he actually talk about the relevance of modification/kilning of malts and levels of SMM in them, which is the point being brought up here

 

[goatchop41]

Anyhow this is obviously off topic for this thread, so you can do what you want and blindly believe what every other homebrewer says, or you can critically evaluate and consider the validity of what they are saying, based on actual available evidence.

Now, back to the Guten

 

[devoutharpist]

Got my 50L Guten now, going to give it a bit of a test run today to make sure it works. Does anyone have a Beersmith profile or a starting point for the 50?

I've seen a bunch of 30/40L profiles and i can't seem to find anything on the facebook group, given the limitations of not having a login.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Got my 50L Guten now, going to give it a bit of a test run today to make sure it works. Does anyone have a Beersmith profile or a starting point for the 50?

I've seen a bunch of 30/40L profiles and i can't seem to find anything on the facebook group, given the limitations of not having a login.

How did you go? Have a look on some of the UK forums if you didn't find anything.

 

[altone]

Got my 50L Guten now, going to give it a bit of a test run today to make sure it works. Does anyone have a Beersmith profile or a starting point for the 50?

I've seen a bunch of 30/40L profiles and i can't seem to find anything on the facebook group, given the limitations of not having a login.

Can you get a profile on this link? Hopcat is the same device

https://www.facebook.com/Guten-Brewery-3050l-Equipment-Profiles-Modifications-132549720802270/

If you can't for whatever reason pm me and I'll send you a few screenshots.

 

[devoutharpist]

Thanks fellas, i did manage to find a couple of profiles in the end, so i will take that one into consideration as well. Once i get the unit dialed in nicely i'll post it back.

Sadly it looks like the maiden brew day has been pushed back a bit though. A few minutes after turning on the pump during my test run there was some water dripping off the recirc pipe. Turns out there was a hairline split in the weld at the bottom of the recirc pipe. I contacted KK and they are going to replace it, just waiting for the faulty pipe to get to them so they can send me a replacement.

 

[altone]

I did a brew today with the maltpipe base the "right" way up and the bloody thing fell out mid mash!
It's going in with the dome pointing up until I work out something better to stop it from falling.
Lucky I had my old urn to dump everything into after mashout with a biab bag in to catch all the grain.

I'm thinking of somehow adding a couple of SS rods to the maltpipe to avoid this ever happening again.