GUTEN

[duncbrewer]

Interesting will await test results.

I had to send the hop missile back as the bottom part of the cylinder bit was knife sharp along with the bit that fitted into it.
Suggested that I filed it down by the company that made it!!

Supplier wanted it back though to assess themselves.

 

[Jayvan90]

One other thing I have done to help keep bits out of the wort .. I bought the reinforced malt pipe bottom having seen other tell tales of bottoms dropping out, so sandwiched some fine SS mesh in between the the two malt pipe bottoms for some extra filtering

 

[duncbrewer]

Strange, no such problems with the Guten 70 of bottom dropping out or wort bits, the robobrew 3 had an extra bit of mesh in the bottom I recall.

 

[Jayvan90]

Strange, no such problems with the Guten 70 of bottom dropping out or wort bits, the robobrew 3 had an extra bit of mesh in the bottom I recall.

Yes there are 2 different bottoms for the 40L .. the one with the folded ribs is the reinforced one .. probably unnecessary with recirc and grain bed filtering but I had the mesh lying around and when I pull apart to clean it’s always caught a bunch of crud so I continue to use it

 

[duncbrewer]

Small bits of crud should be able to go thru the pump fine and as the grain bed settles in will get caught by the grains at the top. So well before the end of mash the wort should be running crystal clear. Any that is left in the kettle during the boil will come to the surface and you can skim those bits off with a tea strainer.

That said slowing down the mash bed is something I want to do as sparging is so fast unless I compact the grain bed with the top plate before sparging. Although I've recently had better results with no sparge as I've got a bit more capacity in the 70. Thanks to @MHB for the tips re that plan.

 

[Jayvan90]

Small bits of crud should be able to go thru the pump fine and as the grain bed settles in will get caught by the grains at the top. So well before the end of mash the wort should be running crystal clear. Any that is left in the kettle during the boil will come to the surface and you can skim those bits off with a tea strainer.

That said slowing down the mash bed is something I want to do as sparging is so fast unless I compact the grain bed with the top plate before sparging. Although I've recently had better results with no sparge as I've got a bit more capacity in the 70. Thanks to @MHB for the tips re that plan.

It has definitely been good for slowing things down a little sparge wise

 

[Jayvan90]

I wish I could say that the trub stopper worked the way that I wanted it to but I can’t …
It did work, but too well. I probably shouldn’t have tried to brew a neipa full of oats and wheat on the test run but I figured it would show up any short comings pretty well, and did it what!!
Mash was smooth enough (rice hulls yes yes) but when it came to the boil things were a little out of ordinary. A rolling boil started while the temp probe was reading 80c, I started a timer at this point since the auto program wasn’t going to start until it hit 100c. The reading from the probe only made it to 97c by the time the boil was finished. Did my hop additions and whirlpool as usual but noticed that the whirlpool was not as strong as usual. When chilling the wort it stalled at 25c where I would normally get down to 18c in the same amount of time so I decided to transfer to the fermenter using a strainer as I normally would, it clogged very quickly. When I heard the gurgle of the pump sucking the last bit out guten I switched it off to have a look at the results … instead of a nice cone of trub in the centre it looked more like and overflowing swimming pool - the whole thing was so clogged that it was actually holding a pool of wort / trub / slurry all the way to the edge of the can.
So a couple of issues to fix there, not quite back to the drawing board but some definite considerations to be given to wort flow plus find out what the heck is going on with the temp probe - my guess is that the trub stopper clogged with hot break and created a cavity with a slow flow in.
Anyway hooray it works - not !
What doesn’t kill us only makes us brew better
Thanks for listening to my story

 

[Jayvan90]

I forgot to mention - my expected OG was 1.071 based on recipe. I got just under 22L of 1.062 into the fermenter so everything is fine - It will be beer!

 

[duncbrewer]

@Jayvan90

Sorry about the problems, I do like the way that the trubtrapper is held in the right position with the false bottom.

Questions how and when do you fit it in so that the false bottom is below the whirlpool bit?

Could be that one of the false bottom legs or the edge with rubber on or accumulated hops is insulating the temp probe.

Might be that you just need a thin rim of false bottom with a few wide spokes ( perhaps angled to throw flow up as a later mod ) a bit like an aero wheel on a bike. Then you'd have a really well positioned trubtrap and great flow.

I don't think you need the false bottom legs anymore.

PS I swear by 10ml of glucanase in any brew with adjuncts, cheap, works, saves volume as no hulls needed.

 

[Jayvan90]

@Jayvan90

Sorry about the problems, I do like the way that the trubtrapper is held in the right position with the false bottom.

Questions how and when do you fit it in so that the false bottom is below the whirlpool bit?

Could be that one of the false bottom legs or the edge with rubber on or accumulated hops is insulating the temp probe.

Might be that you just need a thin rim of false bottom with a few wide spokes ( perhaps angled to throw flow up as a later mod ) a bit like an aero wheel on a bike. Then you'd have a really well positioned trubtrap and great flow.

I don't think you need the false bottom legs anymore.

PS I swear by 10ml of glucanase in any brew with adjuncts, cheap, works, saves volume as no hulls needed.

These things happen but I am determined to make it work !
Part of the initial thought for using the false bottom was how it would stay it in place, I install it right at the start before filling with water, there is enough space to slide it in between the wort out and whirlpool fittings. I will get a pic when I have cleaned up.

I was thinking same @duncbrewer about creating some flow channels in the top, great idea about aero fins angled up (this is now my first project with the Dremel I just bought)

There wasnt a lot of gunk under the trub trapper I think what did get through was sucked down between the edge of false bottom and the can as there are a couple of spots that aren’t quite snug.. like I mentioned it was so clogged it was holding liquid so the silicone on the bottom made a pretty good seal - the probe has good clearance from the silicone ring so the only thing I can think is that it was so clogged it created a cavity of insulated wort that didn’t move or possibly even an air pocket underneath.

I will cut in fins as you suggest for better flow and retest, I feel the legs stabilise it so will leave them in for the minute.

Thanks also for the glucanase tip !

 

[Jayvan90]

@Jayvan90

Sorry about the problems, I do like the way that the trubtrapper is held in the right position with the false bottom.

Questions how and when do you fit it in so that the false bottom is below the whirlpool bit?

Could be that one of the false bottom legs or the edge with rubber on or accumulated hops is insulating the temp probe.

Might be that you just need a thin rim of false bottom with a few wide spokes ( perhaps angled to throw flow up as a later mod ) a bit like an aero wheel on a bike. Then you'd have a really well positioned trubtrap and great flow.

I don't think you need the false bottom legs anymore.

PS I swear by 10ml of glucanase in any brew with adjuncts, cheap, works, saves volume as no hulls needed.

@duncbrewer here are the pictures -
I included one with a red circle that shows the proximity of the temp probe to my trub clogger

 

[BrewLizard]

Damn, this thread has really gone from level 15 to 99 in the past few weeks.

I'm not sure if it's sheer luck or just a benefit of doing 8.5 L batches, but the false bottom has done such an excellent job in containing hot break and hops that it's all I use – no helix coil, no bazooka, no hop spider, and no trub trapper. Haven't had any scorching problems either.

My only gripe with the GUTEN is the lazy programming. It's beyond stupid that you have to deliberately program dummy stages in full-power steps to ramp up. It should have some form of proportional control, if not PID.

(But the saddest part is, I've been so busy that my last 2 batches had to be with extract – one Mr Beer that is likely going to get dumped (for a 75% dumping rate), and one scratch-DME batch, which is a bit more promising. I feel sad for those who never evolved past twangy kit brews.)

 

[user 37368]

I don't even program my grainfather connect let alone the guten, only gripe is having to bend down.

 

[Ballaratguy]

I don't even program my grainfather connect let alone the guten, only gripe is having to bend down.

I put a grainfather connect to my Guten and wouldn’t go back the the Guten controller

 

[duncbrewer]

I'm going to do a few more brews see how these mods go and then consider the smart pid. Not sure why they can't be web enabled a bit like brewpiless and then I could just run it off my laptop or have it on the wall.

 

[Ballaratguy]

I'm going to do a few more brews see how these mods go and then consider the smart pid. Not sure why they can't be web enabled a bit like brewpiless and then I could just run it off my laptop or have it on the wall.

You can mount the smartPID remotely (but corded though)

 

[duncbrewer]

but the relays are still under the guten I assume. So it's just the control panel that's corded?

 

[BrewLizard]

If you have the benefit of some electronic know-how, a $5 ESP8266, a 16x2 LCD and a few buttons could interface with the existing hardware and give you full PID and WiFi for less than $20 outlay...

 

[duncbrewer]

@BrewLizard

I'll confess to some knowhow, just built Two of these
Repetidor iSpindel con Display Oled

and added the extra sensors to it and have attached the ispindels I made to them.

Also a couple of wifi repeaters as per
https://github.com/martin-ger/esp_wifi_repeater
They are all working fine.

Is there a specific ESP8266 pid mash control program or is the smart PID controller software loadable ?
Or a link to a website explaining what to do?

 

[BrewLizard]

I don't have a single, specific example, but the benefit of ESP8266 is that you can program it in the Arduino environment. If you google "arduino pid brew controller" (without quotes) there are countless examples. Arduino also has multiple PID libraries (not brewing-specific) available. ESP8266 gives you the benefit of a TCP/IP stack with easy Wi-Fi control.

For a plant with such high inertia though (i.e. a thing of water with huge specific heat), PID is overkill. Proportional + an integral* term (with some windup prevention) would be more than enough, and easily programmed from scratch if you prefer to know your own code inside-out, rather than working with a library.

SmartPID is okay, and looks reasonably complete as an off-the-shelf solution, but always struck me as way too much money for something with the fit and finish of a DIY hobby job anyway.

*Or even a constant term. E.g. you could work out roughly the minimum power requirement to slightly increase temperature, say 500W. Then add a proportional term, e.g. 400W/°C_error. This means your system would run at full whack until about 4°C below the target, then proportionally reduce power until it gets there. Add 0.5°C of hysteresis in each direction, and you'll have something that is reasonably fast responding, never overshoots and provides tight control -- without any complex tuning requirements.