Goodbye Bronwyn

[manticle]

Same planet as where all the honest businesses live, sifting through their perks.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Same planet as where all the honest businesses live, sifting through their perks.

And paying there fair share of Tax's in the country the where earnt in

 

[wide eyed and legless]

As I said before it isn't easy to rort a system it would be stupid to try and think it will not catch up with you, when the tax office did that sting a few years ago on the eBay businesses and caught over 800 people receiving benefits and making a good living on eBay. As in your case JD the bar owner has questions to answer and in the Fair work Australia system a lot of those who hear the complaints are ex union officials, given jobs by Rudd and Gillard. If you read some of the cases which are heard at FWA you will see that there is a lot of bias in the judgments I was reading of one case where not once but 3 times a convenience store had tried to sack an employee for stealing but had not been successful in doing so. Another point to remember is Bill Shortens statement to the Royal Commission about Cleanevent, 'It is better to negotiate a below award wages and no penalty rates to keep more people employed'. So that would put you behind the eight ball.

If you are happy to pay union dues stu then that is up to you, I would much sooner be judged on my merit and negotiate my own wages, believe me if you are conscientious and good at what you do then the employer will reward and look after you, if you do the wrong thing then I believe the employer has the right to sack you. And I am not saying all unions are bad just the few who keep cropping up in the corruption charges.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

. Another point to remember is Bill Shortens statement to the Royal Commission about Cleanevent, 'It is better to negotiate a below award wages and no penalty rates to keep more people employed'. So that would put you behind the eight ball.

If you are happy to pay union dues stu then that is up to you, I would much sooner be judged on my merit and negotiate my own wages, believe me if you are conscientious and good at what you do then the employer will reward and look after you, if you do the wrong thing then I believe the employer has the right to sack you. And I am not saying all unions are bad just the few who keep cropping up in the corruption charges.

Umm...that is not the case with all employers... many employers really dont give a **** about Joe Average, they are just a number in a book. My experience hast told me that the bigger the employer, the less of a **** they give. They work on the principle that there are plenty of other fish who will do the same work for less.

As for Bill negotiating a " below award wage "...would you prefer them to be on the dole or at least have work and pay some tax...

 

[manticle]

Well the dole is above award* now so.....










*Special award for trying@ <$1.70 p/h

 

[Lemon]

What possible reason is there for fighting for a minimum wage only to negotiate an agreement that pays less than that?

 

[Black Devil Dog]

As for Bill negotiating a " below award wage "...would you prefer them to be on the dole or at least have work and pay some tax...

What the ****?

Can't really believe some of the rubbish here, but this is the most nonsensical comment of all.

You're arguing in favour of something that you've spent countless hours arguing against.

There's no genuine concern for the underprivileged within the union movement, and that also applies, to a lesser extent, to the Labour and Liberal parties.

The major parties want to win the next election, the Unions generally flex their muscles and threaten strikes to try and keep themselves relevant. While they strike the 'workers' go unpaid.

All this misguided anger toward the Royal Commission, might be better directed toward the unions who are meant to be helping those who genuinely need it, rather than fleecing the members (workers).

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

What possible reason is there for fighting for a minimum wage only to negotiate an agreement that pays less than that?

You are mistaking Award wage for Minimum wage.

 

[madpierre06]

Some light reading

http://thesauce.co/achievements-of-the-abbott-government/

And this for me is almost totally defeating, I had to stop reading it before I went and slit my wrists...here is evidence of a political party using the reins of govt. to completely gut any and all porgrams which actually are of real benefit to this country and the people in it, particularly those who are more marginalised than a lot of others. The majority of their implemented decisions are designed to benefit the really BIG money players, at the expense of this country and programs which protect OUR interests and what we have left of a way of life. There is real bloodd on therir hands, particularly in the Sri Lankan situation, and their allowing of the big banks who have exploited and driven off land owners. To these slimy grubs, we way down here are nothing more than trub to be discarded when used up.

At least Labour make a semi pretence of caring, and I do believe that their are those among them who do have some principles of human compassion, and I see in someone like Albanese who actually seems a solid semi-principled bloke.....the scum in the other benches don't even show an ounce of humanity, just look at the eyes...dead and soulless.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

What the ****?

Can't really believe some of the rubbish here, but this is the most nonsensical comment of all.

You're arguing in favour of something that you've spent countless hours arguing against.

There's no genuine concern for the underprivileged within the union movement, and that also applies, to a lesser extent, to the Labour and Liberal parties.

The major parties want to win the next election, the Unions generally flex their muscles and threaten strikes to try and keep themselves relevant. While they strike the 'workers' go unpaid.

All this misguided anger toward the Royal Commission, might be better directed toward the unions who are meant to be helping those who genuinely need it, rather than fleecing the members (workers).

The Unions have negotiated many times for a wage reduction to keep a business afloat and keep everyone employed.

Is that a bad thing...?

Do we just let the workers loose their jobs completely and live on the dole...

The Unions role is not always to get the highest wage possible, sometimes they have to fight and negotiate to keep the workers employed.

 

[Lemon]

You are mistaking Award wage for Minimum wage.

You are correct,

But the question stands, do we need the awards if those who protect conditions deem that in order to employ more people we should do away with them?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

In some cases, yes. But not to employ more people, but to keep those there employed

Removing the award to employ more people is not what its about

 

[Lemon]

Stu,
I agree the unions, have negotiated reduced agreements in an attempt to keep businesses afloat and people employed, but the examples, well one, I can think of is shutting the gate after the horse has bolted. E.g. Holden in Elizabeth.
The experience I have seen is the eyes open deliberate defiance of businesses trying to negotiate a true win win deal, to drive through a blind increase in wages that has resulted in redundancies and misery down the track.

I don't see a way forward with the current system.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Say an employer was having a downturn in their business and it becomes a financial problem that they cant trade and afford the wages,.

What would you do if the job market was extremely tight and you where staring down the barrel of unemployment with **** all work available, what would you do...take a pay cut ( which can also mean less hrs at the same rate of pay ) or go on the dole for an extended period of time ?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Stu,
I agree the unions, have negotiated reduced agreements in an attempt to keep businesses afloat and people employed, but the examples, well one, I can think of is shutting the gate after the horse has bolted. E.g. Holden in Elizabeth.
The experience I have seen is the eyes open deliberate defiance of businesses trying to negotiate a true win win deal, to drive through a blind increase in wages that has resulted in redundancies and misery down the track.

I don't see a way forward with the current system.

Bring back Workchoices then.

 

[manticle]

What the ****?

Can't really believe some of the rubbish here, but this is the most nonsensical comment of all.

You're arguing in favour of something that you've spent countless hours arguing against.

There's no genuine concern for the underprivileged within the union movement, and that also applies, to a lesser extent, to the Labour and Liberal parties.

The major parties want to win the next election, the Unions generally flex their muscles and threaten strikes to try and keep themselves relevant. While they strike the 'workers' go unpaid.

All this misguided anger toward the Royal Commission, might be better directed toward the unions who are meant to be helping those who genuinely need it, rather than fleecing the members (workers).

This is unfortunately quite true.

 

[JDW81]

Australia system a lot of those who hear the complaints are ex union officials, given jobs by Rudd and Gillard. If you read some of the cases which are heard at FWA you will see that there is a lot of bias in the judgments

Just like Dyson Hayden being appointed as head of the Royal Commission.

Let's not pretend that the unions are the only one's who appoint people to positions to arbitrate on behalf of others.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Indeed.

 

[Lemon]

Say an employer was having a downturn in their business and it becomes a financial problem that they cant trade and afford the wages,.

What would you do if the job market was extremely tight and you where staring down the barrel of unemployment with **** all work available, what would you do...take a pay cut ( which can also mean less hrs at the same rate of pay ) or go on the dole for an extended period of time ?

I agree, this is a desirable situation, the former, not the latter, but I have never seen it work.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Unfortunately its not something that gets much attention, if any