Goodbye Bronwyn

[manticle]

@dbs - last government's policies on asylum seekers were pretty damn dreadful too.

Unfortunately both sides seem to have crept further and further to the right in recent times.

The marriage equality issue was in their power to change but they lacked the balls.

Cold heartless pricks? Maybe not but ineffectual due to lack of guts? Definitely. Rudd started strong then faded to nothing, their squabbling did them in. I don't think abbot/brandis etc would have stood a chance if last Labor had been competent. **** off Shorten, get plibersek in, stop dismissing the greens as Loonies when much of their platform and attitude aligns with old Labor and then we might see a goverment with their head at the opposite end to their arse.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

So it doesn't matter what shambles a government gets into as long as they have a heart they will get your vote stu,what do you mean by having a heart, looking after all those who wouldn't work in a barrel of yeast, and giving them every social hand out possible and a raise in dole money to above award wages. Is that what you want from a government?

 

[warra48]

I'm enjoying a lovely hefeweizen. Politics is far from my mind. Next up will be an AIPA, and politics will be even further from my mind.

 

[manticle]

So it doesn't matter what shambles a government gets into as long as they have a heart they will get your vote stu,what do you mean by having a heart, looking after all those who wouldn't work in a barrel of yeast, and giving them every social hand out possible and a raise in dole money to above award wages. Is that what you want from a government?

Dole at above award? On what planet does this happen?

I guess it's easy to pick on welfare recipients. More popular than kicking kittens at least.

 

[SBOB]

you know politics in the country is going well when its 'the party I support is doing a slightly less **** job than yours did' as the underlying argument

 

[manticle]

That's as good as it gets.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

If I was on the 'Old King Cole' I would be voting Labour

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

If I was on the 'Old King Cole' I would be voting Labour

But your a "self made man" so that is something you would never consider...correct ?

 

[manticle]

And if you were a business owner rorting the system to fill your coffers with as much lucre as you could? Which way might you vote then?

 

[Lemon]

It is with great pride that I see that real political discussion is not lost, in this country, to apathy. See 12 pages above.
IMHO, what is lacking in both parties is a VISION. Not a holy, it came to me in the night. A set of values that underpin policy direction.

The labor party set up by the unions for the benefit of the population had it. The current incarnation don't. It is probably because they have achieved more than there wildest dreams, those of old labor I mean. The circumstances that led to this organisation are gone and it is not surprising that those in it now are fumbling in the dark.

Unions actually represent less than 20% of workers, that they run a political party that purports to represent them all , workers that is, is no wonder there are ructions e.g. Rudd, Gillard, faceless men etc. one term govts.

If a drovers dog ran for office on a set of values commensurate with modern Australia, and a direction to make it a better country. He'd get 90% of the vote.

That said, when I reflect on the representative parties being set up in a different age, how does the institution of the parliamentary system barely changed in over a century stand up to suit the world we now live in? Not too well.

An Irish friend of mine says, "in my family, if you didn't discuss religion or politics, you didn't talk"

Keep it friendly, but keep it going.

Lemon

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Dole at above award? On what planet does this happen?

I guess it's easy to pick on welfare recipients. More popular than kicking kittens at least.

As I said manticle there are those among us who will not work, those are the ones I was aiming at if you read it again.

 

[manticle]

Which is about 2% of all welfare recipients and less than 0.000000016% of the tax you pay so why is it such a massive issue?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

And if you were a business owner rorting the system to fill your coffers with as much lucre as you could? Which way might you vote then?

Difficult to rort the system as a business owner, one would face the the wrath of the ATO, though they have difficulty finding the front door of a business never mind any discrepancies in the books, and if you can get away with a little bit of black money thats called a perk, not a rort and if you was getting away with plenty it wouldn't matter who you voted for if you get caught it is a jail term no matter which party is in power.

 

[manticle]

But super easy to get rich on welfare?

 

[manticle]

Black money = perk?
ATO will get you even though they're useless?
Business owners never cheat the system nor rip off their employees?

Whatever you're drinking at the moment must be great.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Difficult to rort the system as a business owner, one would face the the wrath of the ATO, though they have difficulty finding the front door of a business never mind any discrepancies in the books, and if you can get away with a little bit of black money thats called a perk, not a rort and if you was getting away with plenty it wouldn't matter who you voted for if you get caught it is a jail term no matter which party is in power.

You must be a very poor business owner....or very honest...

Its very easy to rort the system if you know how...

Look at the multinationals who pay NO tax. Guess which side of politics they lie with...

Sort of makes the amount the unions have rorted pale into insignificance doesnt it

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Not really what the multinationals do is legal what the hierarchy of the unions are doing is extortion and misappropriating union members funds for their own gain.
Any business owner can take a chance and try to illegally obtain an advantage but if you get caught it just isn't worth it, someone I knew tried it didn't declare $4,000,000, ATO investigated went to court and he got 7 years minimum, his wife divorced him and as soon as the divorce came through she was told by the ATO to sell the house and give them his half.
Better off to run a business legitimately in the ATO's eyes pay as little tax as legally possible and keep your nose clean.

 

[JDW81]

Difficult to rort the system as a business owner

Not really, it's actually quite easy to rort the system and get away with it, even for small businesses. I worked for a short time at a bar in Williamstown who refused to pay the hospitality award as well as penalty rates on weekends/public holidays. They even emailed me saying that they didn't pay the award cause it costs too much and justified it by saying everyone else does it.

I forwarded my correspondence to the fair work commission who told me they couldn't do anything based on an email trail from the employer, so I forwarded my payslips to them. I haven't heard back, the bar is still in business and paying below the award wage. I no longer work for them, the bar is still **** and they wonder why they don't get decent employees.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Not really what the multinationals do is legal what the hierarchy of the unions are doing is extortion and misappropriating union members funds for their own gain.
Any business owner can take a chance and try to illegally obtain an advantage but if you get caught it just isn't worth it, someone I knew tried it didn't declare $4,000,000, ATO investigated went to court and he got 7 years minimum, his wife divorced him and as soon as the divorce came through she was told by the ATO to sell the house and give them his half.
Better off to run a business legitimately in the ATO's eyes pay as little tax as legally possible and keep your nose clean.

You seem to tar ALL unions and ALL union officials with the same brush....Yes there are some bad apples, but there not ALL bad apples as you want to make us believe

Remember what happened to the NSW Liberals a little while back...

Not really, it's actually quite easy to rort the system and get away with it, even for small businesses. I worked for a short time at a bar in Williamstown who refused to pay the hospitality award as well as penalty rates on weekends/public holidays. They even emailed me saying that they didn't pay the award cause it costs too much and justified it by saying everyone else does it.

I forwarded my correspondence to the fair work commission who told me they couldn't do anything based on an email trail from the employer, so I forwarded my payslips to them. I haven't heard back, the bar is still in business and paying below the award wage. I no longer work for them, the bar is still **** and they wonder why they don't get decent employees.

I ask this WEAL...If there wasnt a union to help workers in situations like this, who would fund the battle to fight for there wages and advocate for the workers

Or do you believe that employers pay whatever they like and screw the workers

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

raise in dole money to above award wages. Is that what you want from a government?

And where did you get that from...?