Giving Wheat A Go

[mjp]

Hi all. Gonna have a crack at my first wheat beer next week. Am thinking of doing a 50/50 mash of JW pilsner and JW malted wheat(Cos thats what I have) Dont know if this is a good idea as ive never been down the wheat path before. Was planning on a 26l batch using 3kg of each. May use some crystal as well but wanted to keep 1st attempt simple so I know what to play with next time. Not sure what hops to use, so hence the post. I currently have POR, Cascade,Galaxy, Nelson, Motueka,Halletau,Fuggles.What do people suggest? I was gonna stick with a single type with a 60 and a 10 min addition (once again to understand the wheat for next time) Was planning on the Halletau. Would like some opinions on this. Also, what mash temps should I go for and mash for 60 min or 90? Have never even used wheat as a specialty grain addition, so any advice will be greatly appreciated. Will be using Safbrew WB-06 yeast- hope this is acceptable?

 

[manticle]

If you want a traditional hefe then hallertau for sure. 12 -20 IBU, single addition only. In my experience and opinion, a hefe will benefit from a good step mash regime and possibly a decoction or two (can be combined and nowhere near as daunting as it sounds).

Not sure what equipment you have but anything other than BIAB, I would chuck some rice hulls in if using that amount of wheat.

Never used wb-06 but if you can and are willing - I would recommend 3068 from wyeast with a ferment temp of about 17 degrees.

 

[Nick JD]

What kind of wheat beers do you like?

 

[warra48]

What you propose, a 50/50 mix pils and wheat malt, is a perfect starting point for your first wheat.
I'd forget the crystal malts. If you really are after some additinal sweetness, then up to about 200gr Carahell or Carawheat would be fine.


You could go to the trouble of doing step mashes and make life complicated, but for your first one, there's nothing wrong with a single infusion mash, about 65 to 66C will be perfectly adequate.

I totally agree with manticle about adding a few handfulls of rice hulls to your mash. I usually add mine at mash out time, so they don't sit in my mash the whole time I'm brewing.

I agree WY3068 would be your best choice for your first wheat.

It's your choice, but I prefer to ferment my wheats at around 19 to 20C. I'm not a fan of too much clove, so I prefer to encourage a small degree of banana, without going over the top.

 

[mjp]

Thanks for the advice. My lhbs is not really what I would call a cracker, so the WB-06 was the only dry wheat beer yeast i could get. As for Nick jd's Q, dunkels are my fav- wanna start simple though as I've never played with wheat. If the yeast Ive got is not so good, is there a nice imported wheat beer I can scrounge a starter out of? The bottle shop that I catch the ferry from after work has a great assortment of foreign wheats. Dont know whats a good one though.Will put mash off for a week or so if I can grow a decent yeast.Any ideas(Paulaner,Scheider weisse,wehanstephaner(spelt wrong I think),hacker-pschorr,Erdinger,Altenmunster,etc etc.) Throw a beer I can use as a yeast and I will use that.Probabaly in a 1040 wheat spraymalt starter.

 

[manticle]

As far as I know, most commercially available weizens that are bottle conditioned use a non weizen yeast in the bottle. WB-06 will be fine. Brew it and then, if it works well, brew it again with some 3068 and see the difference for yourself.

 

[mjp]

Sounds like a plan Manticle. Ive got it so might as well use it. My lhbs has very little stock but is happy to get whatever I ask for. The wheat beer was this weekends thing-Think I'm the only local doing ag.-Extract and FWK seems the go here.If I buy bulk its reasonable. Who makes 3068?

 

[manticle]

Wyeast make 3068. 3038 is another wyeast wheat yeast but I have no epxerience of that one.

 

[VBisGod]

I dont think wyeast3068 is a yeast i would recommend to a newish brewer, alas when he/she finds the lid off the fermenter and shite everywhere. This is one serious yeast that requires serious consideration to your fermenter headspace or alternativly as I do brew in plastic carboys a "burton system", which in a nutshell is just saving spewed up yeast.
wb06 on the other hand, brewed with it many times and have always found it to be temp tolerate at about 20-22 deg, nice bubblegum, banana, lacks a liitle clove but goes very well with a heavy mix of wheat, but the other side of the coin i found this yeast to be never the same if re-using, hence the pink packets are expensive.

 

[manticle]

I dont think wyeast3068 is a yeast i would recommend to a newish brewer, alas when he/she finds the lid off the fermenter and shite everywhere. This is one serious yeast that requires serious consideration to your fermenter headspace or alternativly as I do brew in plastic carboys a "burton system", which in a nutshell is just saving spewed up yeast.
wb06 on the other hand, brewed with it many times and have always found it to be temp tolerate at about 20-22 deg, nice bubblegum, banana, lacks a liitle clove but goes very well with a heavy mix of wheat, but the other side of the coin i found this yeast to be never the same if re-using, hence the pink packets are expensive.

Fair enough. My first AG hefe was brewed using 3068 and you are right - crazy krausen. I've never used wb06 so my recommendation is based purely on my experience.

 

[Tanga]

Acid rest for more clove?

 

[VBisGod]

Acid rest for more clove?

I reckon Wazza covered that in post # 4

Acid rest yes for more clove, but clove can be horrible and over the top.

 

[Tim F]

I've used WB06 and 3068 and there's really no comparison. 3068 makes crazy, beautiful banana/clove at 18-20, WB06 hints at banana but after a few weeks in the bottle/keg mine seems to die down a lot, finishing up a lot more neutral than the 3068. Still makes a nice beer but not in the same league as 3068. I get more banana from 3068 if I just pitch the yeast without making a starter, just smack the pack and chuck it in.

I brewed a 60% wheat today - in fact it is dripping into the kettle now . I definitely recommend rice hulls as I didn't use them this time and wishing I did. I'm uisng 3638 for the first time on this one, looking forward to seeing how it goes!

 

[Nick JD]

I'm uisng 3638 for the first time on this one, looking forward to seeing how it goes!

3638 is like a 50% strength version of 3068. It's all there, just in a smaller dose. Mellower on the phenolics and esters. Thing I found is there is less apparent "loss" of flavour - as 3068 is insane at FG and rapidly decomposes - in a couple of weeks it's lacking; whereas with 3638, it's a straight line loss.

 

[Filby]

What about 3944? Have had good results with it but not much clove?

 

[Nick JD]

What about 3944? Have had good results with it but not much clove?

That's a Belgian Wit yeast. I think we're taking more about the german yeasts.

 

[Filby]

Ah ok. How does the flavour profile differ between the two? Whats a good commercial example of a german wheat?

 

[punkin]

I did a Redback clone i got from here and am drinking it now.

It doesn't have as much honey flavour as Redback, but i don't think that's a bad thing. My first go at a wheat beer and i like it, same grain bill as you listed, i don't know enough about hops to reccommend one from your list.


redback clone (Witbier)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.048 (P): 11.9
Final Gravity (FG): 1.012 (P): 3.1
Alcohol (ABV): 4.72 %
Colour (SRM): 3.5 (EBC): 6.8
Bitterness (IBU): 18.2 (Average)

50% Pilsner
50% Wheat Malt

0.7 g/L Pride of Ringwood (8.3% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
0.9 g/L Saaz (3.6% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil)
0.9 g/L Saaz (3.6% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Aroma)


Single step Infusion at 66C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 16C with Wyeast 3638 - Bavarian Wheat


Recipe Generated with BrewMate

I also used US-05 for the yeast at ambient temp.

 

[Nick JD]

Ah ok. How does the flavour profile differ between the two? Whats a good commercial example of a german wheat?

A couple of popular ones to taste the flavour difference in general between Belgian and German would be Hoegaarden (3944) and Schofferhofer (3068).

If you can get your hands on a Schneider Weisse, I reckon it's the king of wheats.

There are also American wheatbeers, but they are just pale ales with lots of wheat.

Probably the best way to check out and compare beer styles is to google: "bjcp belgian wit" and "bjcp weizen" and read the first search result.

 

[Ross]

wb06 on the other hand, brewed with it many times and have always found it to be temp tolerate at about 20-22 deg, nice bubblegum, banana, lacks a liitle clove but goes very well with a heavy mix of wheat, but the other side of the coin i found this yeast to be never the same if re-using, hence the pink packets are expensive.

I might have to revisit this yeast, I've brewed with it several times & to me it's always been the dried aquivalent of WY3333 - tart, lots of clove with little if any banana/bubblegum.

cheers Ross