given a fairly complete set up

[perko8]

Hi All,
My first post for me on here.
I've just acquired a fair bit of kit from someone, and wondering what to start with (and what to toss out) as some is old and some newer.

I like to drink amber / pale ales, clean euro lagers, and have a growing interest in hoppy/IPA style beers eg Little Creatures IPA

What i have:

Small bar fridge with basic temp control, big enough to just fit a fermenter. Bucket of water in it currently monitor its temp stability - seems good at about 18-20, fluctuates a bit at lower temps.

2 fermenters 23 ish l size (1 used (airlock type, 1 brand new (coopers collar type) and 2x all the associated kit contents/cleaning gear.

Ingredients:
Old tins (unknown age): light malt extract, canadian blonde
New tins(6 months since purchase): 1x coopers lager, 1x real ale, 1x coopers amber ext.
Dry: 1kg Light dry malt, 1kg crystal malt, craptonnes of dextrose, 1kg brew enhancer 1.
Hops: 50g Cascade (new ish), 15g Goldings (old) both in sealed foil packs
1x sachet of US04 yeast - 06/2013 date on it (use by or production date?)

I was thinking something like this - real ale can, Amber ext can, cascade hops (50% boil, 50% dry), in the fridge, add yeast at 18-20 deg.

some specific questions I'm thinking about:
Which fermenter should I use?
Is the S04 yeast too old? Is kit yeast such a terrible thing as I've read here?
Is a real ale can and amber extract going to be an Amber ale, or a Dark ale? or something else?
Hop addition times? Or should I forego hops for the first go and save for later?
One thing I don't have is a big stock pot. Size suggestions? 10/15/20L?
Oh - and Secondary ferment in other fermentor, or not?

Any help on these or other suggestions for what I have would be great.

Not wanting to overly complicate things first up, but am keen to make something really enjoyable.
Nor do I want to buy much else yet as what I have is taking up a bit of room as it is.

Cheers guys,
Perko

 

[TehCrucible]

Reasonably new at this myself but I can answer a few of these questions.

Which fermenter should I use?

I use the new Coopers style fermenters and really like them. I like the kind-of-conical base and the fact that they're see through. Short answer though, is that it really doesn't matter if they're both undamaged, clean and sanitary.

Is the S04 yeast too old? Is kit yeast such a terrible thing as I've read here?

I wouldn't use it regardless of the date. Not knowing the conditions it was stored in, pitching it is not worth the $5 for a new pack I don't think there's anything wrong with "kit" yeast, I think its more about getting the right yeast for the job. Different yeasts will have different operating temperatures/gravities and produce different flavours.

Is a real ale can and amber extract going to be an Amber ale, or a Dark ale? or something else?

On their own, they'll give you an EBC (colour) of ~23 which I would call more "amber" than "dark". Try playing around with ianh's spreadsheet. It's fun.

Hop addition times? Or should I forego hops for the first go and save for later?

Adding hops at different times produces different results. Also remember that "kits" like the Coopers Real Ale and Lager tins have been "pre-hopped". However, I see no reason not to experiment.

One thing I don't have is a big stock pot. Size suggestions? 10/15/20L?

I've been using a cheap 15L pot from Big W to boil hops etc in. Its more than enough for what I do.

Oh - and Secondary ferment in other fermentor, or not?

Unless you have a particular reason to (for example, lagering for clarity), I can't see it being necessary. I've been fermenting for ~10 days in primary and then bottle condition from there.
Hope that helps. Take everything with a grain of salt because I'm still figuring out what the **** I'm doing also lol.

 

[technobabble66]

Hi All,
My first post for me on here.
...
I was thinking something like this - real ale can, Amber ext can, cascade hops (50% boil, 50% dry), in the fridge, add yeast at 18-20 deg.

some specific questions I'm thinking about:
Which fermenter should I use?
Is the S04 yeast too old? Is kit yeast such a terrible thing as I've read here?
Is a real ale can and amber extract going to be an Amber ale, or a Dark ale? or something else?
Hop addition times? Or should I forego hops for the first go and save for later?
One thing I don't have is a big stock pot. Size suggestions? 10/15/20L?
Oh - and Secondary ferment in other fermentor, or not?
...

Howdy
Welcome to the forum.

I'll try to answer some of your questions until someone with more experience (esp w Kits&Bits) rocks up.

First of all, download ianh's spreadsheet to load in new recipes and assess/calculate how they'll turn out. It's brilliant, and gives you a good idea what your experiments will do.
Link here for the spreadsheet.

I just entered what you suggest into it to check, and it should/could be fine. The 2 tins diluted to 21 L would be roughly right. The real ale tin is pre-hopped, so that takes care of the basic bittering. I'd save the hops for very late in the boil, plus dry hopping into the fermenter.
So i'd boil some water (few litres), put it into the fermenter/FV along with the 2 tins, using some of the boiling water to rinse the malty goodness out of the tins. Add another few litres of cold water.
Then get 1 L of water boiling in a pot and add 100g of the Dried Light Malt Extract (LDME) powder (take it off the heat while you add the LDME - it'll burn on the base if you keep on the direct heat). Bring it back to the boil. Add 25g of the Cascade hops. Boil for 2 mins. Turn off the heat, cover with a lid and place into a sink/basin of cold water. Leave for 10 mins. Pour this into the FV through a strainer/hop sock that you've sanitised. Bring the total amount up to 21L using cold water, and a bit of hot water to get the final temp to ~18°C. Stir vigorously for a bit to aerate, then add yeast. Ferment at 18°C.

Now
Either FV should be fine, assuming they're both clean, and you'll need to sanitise whichever one you choose. I'd use the biggest one.
Not sure about the date on the yeast - if that's the Use-By date, it's a bit too old for a first-timer. Maybe get a new one to be sure. You can always use the older one next brew if it turns out to be the production date. Yes, kit yeast is that bad.
The resulting brew will probably be something a bit more like a Pale Ale, or something between that and an Amber Ale.
I suggested only doing a 2min boil with half the hops as the Real Ale tin is quite heavily bittered, so more boil time might be a bit too bitter.
Go to BigW, get a 19L pot.
Don't bother with the secondary ferment, at least for the first couple of batches.

If you were really keen, you could steep 100g of the crystal malt (is it pre-crushed?) in another litre of warm water (~60-70°C) for 30-60min, strain out the grain and boil the liquid for 10-15mins. then chuck that into the FV also. It'll add a bit more flavour and depth to the beer. Not essential, but worth it if you're keen.

Best of luck!!

EDIT: Teh Crucible beat me to it: basically +1 to what he said.

 

[perko8]

Thanks for the replys guys. Very helpful.
Could I also do the hops in the product from steeping the crystal? (Yes it does look to be crushed)

 

[technobabble66]

Hey perko.

Do you mean can you put the hops into a hop-sock during your boil?
Yep, certainly can. I wouldn't bother though - I'd let the hops swim freely then strain them out while pouring into the FV. Same with the crystal if you chose to use a bit of that also.
Does that answer your question?

 

[robfromdublin]

I'm new to this myself but from bitter experience I would suggest chucking away the old tins. Made my first brew with unused old tins and ended up pouring it down the drain. Although at first I assumed I'd done something wrong, I followed the same process second time around and the beer was fine though, so I reckon it was the old ingredients.

 

[wereprawn]

Thanks for the replys guys. Very helpful.
Could I also do the hops in the product from steeping the crystal? (Yes it does look to be crushed)

Sure can. A good way actually.

 

[perko8]

Hey perko.

Do you mean can you put the hops into a hop-sock during your boil?
Yep, certainly can. I wouldn't bother though - I'd let the hops swim freely then strain them out while pouring into the FV. Same with the crystal if you chose to use a bit of that also.
Does that answer your question?

I was more meaning just in with the crystal steep goodness. The crystal is open and the dry malt isn't yet so I'm leaning to go that way, and if I'm gonna boil some water for hops I may as well do the steep.
But yes, that answers the question.

For the steeping, should the grain be in a bag?

 

[shacked]

Thanks for the replys guys. Very helpful.
Could I also do the hops in the product from steeping the crystal? (Yes it does look to be crushed)

Hey mate,

Yes, you can steep certain specialty grains (like crystal) and use the liquid to form part of your hop boil. You also need to add some extract (dry or liquid) to get you to a gravity of about 1.040. This gravity is ideal for hop utilisation. Ianh's spreadsheet will sort out the quantities for your hop boil.

I'd be a little cautious before adding crystal to the real ale + amber extract brew. The amber extract will already have some crystal in it and the real ale may also contain some crystal. Too much may make your brew a little sweet.

From memory the real ale can is already quite bitter. I'd be looking at adding your hops late in the boil (10 or 5 mins) or add them dry.

Generally a good idea to steer clear of the kit yeast. Also, most will prefer Nottingham over S04 (some report stalling and all kinds of issues with S04); definitely agree with previous posters - get the freshest yeast you can find.

Good luck and keep us posted on your brew!

 

[TehCrucible]

For the steeping, should the grain be in a bag?

Na, I just cover them with water in a saucepan and put it in the fridge overnight. Strain grains out the next morning and rinse them with a bit more hot water to make sure you got all the goodness.

 

[perko8]

Well, think I will put it on tonight.
Kit yeast with the real ale is the freshest I've got. So I'll give that a go. Will rehydrate it first and check it bubbles up.

I'll put the Real ale and Amber malt cans in the fermenter and then add some hops to the boil liquid made from light dry malt extract. Might be simpler than steeping for now.

Will see how it goes and let you know!
Cheers everyone for the assistance

 

[Killer Brew]

If you have the option to pick up another yeast then do so. Aside from that I would try the S-04 before the kit yeast even if you are unsure of its age. If it doesn't fire you could then go with the kit yeast if desperate.

 

[shacked]

If you have the option to pick up another yeast then do so. Aside from that I would try the S-04 before the kit yeast even if you are unsure of its age. If it doesn't fire you could then go with the kit yeast if desperate.

+1

You could also try making a starter with the S04. It's generally not recommended for a dry yeast but it may help if the pack is a bit old.

 

[perko8]

So I've got the wort cooling in the fridge.

Yeast starter from the unknown S04 looks like this after about an hour:


Should I discard this and go with kit yeast?
I've got two kits - a coopers lager too that I could add. I read somewhere that two 7g kit yeasts can be an ok option?

 

[perko8]

No change in the s04 starter this morning so I pitched a kit yeast.

 

[shacked]

No change in the s04 starter this morning so I pitched a kit yeast.

Sounds like it's beyond it mate. Grab a fresh pack of notto for next time!

 

[technobabble66]

Yeah, if it's unchanged 12-18 hrs later it doesn't bode well.
However, you need to check the SG to make sure - not all yeasts throw a krausen so quickly. If the SG hasn't changed much it's a dud. If it has, maybe let if ferment it out then stick it in the fridge to chill it down and settle it out - could be ok to pitch within the next 2-3 weeks if you wanted to give it a second chance.
But given it'll be your 2nd beer and it's only $5, I'd buy a fresh packet next time.

 

[perko8]

Some bubbles in the s04 starter this morning!

But more importantly, the kit yeast seems to be doing it's thing, about half an inch of foam around the edge of the ferment or this morning. Sitting at 19deg in the fridge.

Should I check gravity daily, or just wait a few days yet? It was 1.045 when I pitched.

 

[mofox1]

Nah - give it a week or more before you bother checking gravity...

Don't rush to get it in to bottles, let the yeast finish and clean up after itself and you'll reduce your risk of bottle bombs.

 

[shacked]

No point in checking everyday. Wasting too much beer!!

Give it a couple of weeks. If you have temp control, have a look at crash chilling for the last few days.