Fully Automated Brewing System Design

[Bandito]

Yea, but its going to be heaps easier and less time consuming to hack something already made than fabricate a mechanism from scratch. 3D printing one would cost about $300. I think there is a labview stepper motor controller that would show up in labview as a preconfigured driver. Originally I was thinking a laboratory carousel - those tablet dispensers are cheaper though.

What you describe is Zwickels hop dispenser . Will see if I can find it later tonight, no need to model it

 

[Bandito]

Looks like the automatic pet food dispensers use a screw drive (auger) to dispense dry food. I suppose it is the best - wont clog or jam. Could be home made with a large auger type drill bit, but would be easier and more reliable to just buy them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auger

http://cgi.ebay.com/Ergo-AUTO-PET-FEEDER-Automatic-Food-Dispenser-Medium-u_W0QQitemZ320393370552QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4a98eedbb8

://http://cgi.ebay.com/Ergo-AUTO-PET-F...tem4a98eedbb8

Also called processpumps.com.au today for a quote on an Ismatec peristatic pump with either analogue or digital controls, 1 to 3 Lpm flow and 3/16" ID 1/4 OD tube. Havent recieved the quote yet.

Also realised the peristatic pump can be used to airate the wort just by leaving the valve to the fermenter open and leaving the pump on.

 

[Bandito]

Seems I inadvertantly finnished the first simplification phase and started the second last complication phase tonight. I have colored parts red that I have a good idea of what I want and where to get them. Also added some things like an overhead mixer, drill, and elaborated on the CIP system.

I would like some guidance on what cleaning chemicals to use - The no brainer is starsan, still figuring out if I want the low foam version as foam would help sanitising the large fermenter. Then I need a cleaner and a steriliser. I think caustic does both? I dont think chlorine bleach is any good for stainless, and since the 40 kettle urn will be stainless, as well as a barbed T joiner, that is probably out. I dont think napisan is a steriliser so am I right in thinking that caustic is the best/only option?

I am planning on using IV bags (intra-veneous drips) with pinch valves on the outlets to dose the liquid cleaners. I figure it will be easier to have one type of valve to automate rather than more types that all require something different. I should look into the availability of IV bags in terms of the outlet tube sizes - I might need to order some smaller teflon tube for these and send a sample along with the other stuff off to the US to have the pinch valves calibrated to the durometer (squishiness) of the tube.

Still no word from the teflon tube supplier (ordered it 2 weeks ago), still no quote from processpumps.com.au

From the PFD, the most complex piece of equipment will be the mash/lauter tun - got heaps going into it!

I think the next thing will be to source a 40L stainless steel urn supplier, and find the previous post by the guy that mentioned what chiller to get and find a supplier of that. That should reduce the amount of things I need to think about down to a workable amount.

At the rate this is going I would expect it to be done in 4 months time! But something always rears it head to put the kybosh on a good thing - so 3 months extra seems a realistic estimate - if these suppliers get off their arses!

View attachment AUTOBREW_01_rev_Q.pdf

 

[///]

So this rig will make beer, but will it make good beer, reliably and consistently? These q's may have been asked, so i'll be breif.

* pH - mains water pH can oscillate widely during the day, how are you going to manage water salts to ensure the desired pH of each mash?
* drop out the napisan altogether. If 2% hot caustic cant move it, neither will it. Also why are you flushing cleaners and sanitisers thru MT to FV. Straight to FV, with MT to only get a hot water flush. Lastly, caustic is sticky shit which affects wort pH, how do you account for washing all residue from FV?
* if multi-batch brewing, if the ferment is up and running no point adding more o2, how do you swtich off?
* got yourself a boil over detector for kettle, or low water in your HLT?

At the end of each batch how do you record paramets like FG, pH and temp, and manage the subsequent batches? We are making good beer, not 'beer' ...

Lastly, get yourself up to W'gong as soon as poss to see how 1200l of beer gets made ... will highlight alot.

Scotty

 

[Bandito]

Thanks Triple Forwardslash! Good questions/ Note: I edited my post after you posted it seems.

So will this rig make good bear? I suppose it depends on who programs the recipe . I wont be limited to fast ferment regimes like the big boys, or their other commercial limitations. It should be just like any other home brew. It should be very consistant.

* I have a Reverse Osmosis water filter - I still have to speak to my filter guy psifilters.com.au to see how much a water remineraliser is, but thats how I am planning on taking out the tap water variable and reintroduce menerals for the yeast.

* Yea, thats what I was thinking too - caustic it is - but does that mean it needs to be powder? or can I use a stored concentrated liquid solution made from dissolved caustic gramules? Guess I have to see how concentrated a caustic solution can get, and wether IV bags can contain it. Also have to see if caustic granules will fit inside a 3/16" tube - as the pinch valves can be used for solids aparently.

Not exactly sure what you mean by FV but I assume you are reffering to the Fermenter Valve. As to why I am taking all cleaning and sanitising chemicals through all vessels is because it doesnt require anymore piping than the beer requires - even if the MT is not required to be sanitised etc - the cleaning solutions will be made up to volume in it and passed along to the kettle (where it can be heated), through the chiller (which wont have tap water running at the time), past the fermenter valve and out the end of the outlet tube. I also plan to use this to make me even small batches of cleaning chemicals prior to pitching and even for cleaning kegs etc (with a manual on/off for the pump.)

* I envisage the multi batch working by boiling all batches individually and sucessively pumping them into the fermenter until such a time that I airate and pitch.

* The HLT will have a float valve (FV-1) and also another pc controlled valve so the water inlet can be shut off while draining. Dont have a boil over detector on the kettle - it will be mounted over a chemical bund which is like a shallow bathtub with the drain of the bund going straight to the floor drain or pumped into the laundry sink with an automated pump.

At this point I am actually planning on taking readings manually in the begining while testing the system, and after that I will determine the alcohol contentby drinking it. Temp is easy to measure and log automatically, OG, FG, BG, pH etc are measurements that to be honest I have decided not to bother measuring. After all they are just numbers representing the current brew, they cant be changed for that brew so they are what they are - they could help diagnose issues or tweak recipes or flavours, but at this point am planning on intermittant initial manual measurements.

Where in the gong is that?

 

[///]

* Yea, thats what I was thinking too - caustic it is - but does that mean it needs to be powder?

Nah, go liquid. We use 50% diluted to 2%. powder or granules are awful to use.

* Not exactly sure what you mean by FV but I assume you are reffering to the Fermenter Valve. As to why I am taking all cleaning and sanitising chemicals through all vessels is because it doesnt require anymore piping than the beer requires - even if the MT is not required to be sanitised etc - the cleaning solutions will be made up to volume in it and passed along to the kettle (where it can be heated), through the chiller (which wont have tap water running at the time), past the fermenter valve and out the end of the outlet tube. I also plan to use this to make me even small batches of cleaning chemicals prior to pitching and even for cleaning kegs etc (with a manual on/off for the pump.)


FV is fermenting vessel. But I would not run sanitiser from MT>Kettle>FV, would do it the otherway. You'll get protein and tannin build up and microbes in the system, best to start with the FV for cleaner, sanitiser and such.


But pH is critical, only way to get consistent beers. maybe a solution is an addition of pH 5.2 for each batch.

* Where in the gong is that?


Ralph Black Drive, just round the road from the North Gong. PM us when you can make it up.

Scotty

 

[Bandito]

FV is fermenting vessel. But I would not run sanitiser from MT>Kettle>FV, would do it the otherway. You'll get protein and tannin build up and microbes in the system, best to start with the FV for cleaner, sanitiser and such.

Well, I didnt think it was possible, but sometimes I even freak myself out! Think I have a starting point to what your saying. Making use of the overflow from the FV in such a way that it can be used as a cip input. It will get more of a workout tomorrow night.

Nah, go liquid. We use 50% diluted to 2%. powder or granules are awful to use.

Sounds good.

But pH is critical, only way to get consistent beers. maybe a solution is an addition of pH 5.2 for each batch.

Hmmm...... ...... ....... Well, I have been getting good consistant pH wort readings of 5.4 with plain RO water - A remineraliser might drop that a tiny bit. Since I am a home brewer I dont need an extremely consistant result, just relatively. I will think about it! I Really should get a water sample tested.

Ralph Black Drive, just round the road from the North Gong. PM us when you can make it up.

Thanks, will do.

View attachment AUTOBREW_01_rev_R.pdf

 

[Bandito]

The teflon tube arrived! guess what... Its hard walled! :angry: The 1/2" OD is hard as. They sent the wrong size of the smaller size - I ordered 1.4" OD 3/16" ID, they sent 5/16" OD 1/4" ID - so it is too large.

So pretty shattered right here. There are options to use it, and I can send back the smaller stuff for the proper size I ordered and just connect it to small lengths of flexable tube for the pinch valves, but I really wanted to use continuous lengths. So I spose I will use continuous lengths of the tube used in the pinch valves - silicon select or chemflex.

The teflon tube looks great though - so so slippery! feels like it has oil on it but it doesnt! I do have plenty of other projects and potential inventions I can use it in, so it wont go to waste, but still shattered none the less.


On another note - I got a motorised bubble machine from dick smith today, left it at work, but will see if it can be modified for use as a hop dispenser.

 

[bum]

I got a motorised bubble machine from dick smith today, left it at work, but will see if it can be modified for use as a hop dispenser.

I can just see the impotent Rage face many will be pulling at their monitors right now. FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

 

[Bandito]

Why is that? What is that?

It looks like the motor is heavily geared so will hopefully turn slow, if not slow enough, voltage can be reduced. Might allow use as a ferris wheel type of arrangement where buckets are attached and are flipped over to release the contents. Not sure, but cant hurt to try.
Its the only thing I have found in local shops so far that rotates with a motor. So with a position sensor, it might be doable - only one way to find out.
The system budget does not include prototypes and tests. So far only spent about $103 at bunnings, $23 on the bubble machine, and $598 on the teflon!

Hmmm, this thick stuff might just be hard enough and slippery enough to use in a homemade peristatic pump as the rollers.

Actually, I just realised that all is not lost! the larger tube that I was always planning on using as the overflows cost the bulk of the price - $375, and there is no need for it to be soft walled or have pinch valves on it. I wanted teflon for these overflows for its superior slipperyness to aid in cleaning - dont want mould or bugs to be able to adhear to it. Which means the pdf was wrong.

 

[yardy]

Which means the pdf was wrong.

phew, that's a relief, i was awake half the night worrying about that..

 

[paulwolf350]

phew, that's a relief, i was awake half the night worrying about that..

Lick his balls, bitch



not allowed to be negative,


or constructive, of informative, he is a designer, mate.

 

[yardy]

Lick his balls, bitch



not allowed to be negative,


or constructive, of informative, he is a designer, mate.

nah, you lick 'em..

i checked the whole sig and realised he's hardcore..

 

[Bandito]

phew, that's a relief, i was awake half the night worrying about that..

:lol: I do lay awake at night thinking about this stuff - I try not to, and its not for long, but it is the last thing I think about before falling asleep, and the first thing I think about during the morning coffee.

At the rate it is going, it looks like it will be finnished before the 7 month deadline - but something always pops up to put the kybosh on projects at the worst time, so allowing for that, the project is going to schedule (still have to make a schedule). It seems like the part that could put a mojor dent in it is the time it takes to get quotes and procure and have parts delivered - it took 2 and a half weeks to get the teflon tube, I asked for a quote from processpumps.com.au on tuesday, reminded them on thursday that I was still waiting, they said I would have the quote within an hour, and here I am on friday night still waiting - do these companies actually make a living selling stuff? If a keen buyer cant even get a quote how do they survive?

Looks like this weekends project is to reasearch the valves for the MLT - it is going to be HARDCORE!


Sorry paul, perhaps I should have asked nicely. :lol: Its a joke dude, dont take it to hart. I grew up around people that would say that sort of thing and much worse all the time, its really not that big of a deal. In any other situation I would say grow some balls, but I wont say that as it may offend some of the lesser hardened individuals. I thought this was a beer forumn, not a wine forumn - so I didnt think it would be taken so seriously! :lol:

 

[paulwolf350]

Sorry paul, perhaps I should have asked nicely. :lol: Its a joke dude, dont take it to hart. I grew up around people that would say that sort of thing and much worse all the time, its really not that big of a deal. In any other situation I would say grow some balls, but I wont say that as it may offend some of the lesser hardened individuals. I thought this was a beer forumn, not a wine forumn - so I didnt think it would be taken so seriously! :lol:

Go Hard mate, I am all good. If I worried about what people thought, I would of necked myself years ago.


This is the best thread ever!

Paul

 

[Bandito]

That right, most of my posts are 'designed' to provoke a laugh! They usually involve some sort of quote from tv (the 'I told you I'm hardcore' quote in my sig is a modified quote from the movie Crank, where the haitian cab driver said "I told you, It hardcore" but my humour is a fair way off centre, and hardly anyone I know gets it anymore than 1% of the time. The second is a modified quote from southpark, the third is from Oddesy 5, and the last is from seinfield.

 

[bigbird]

Holy crap Batemans Bay automated brewing..... thats awesome!
Go fishin in the mornin, beer in fermenter when you get home.

Nothin left to do but roll down to the Bayview for a few beers!

 

[Bandito]

Thats the idea! who would want to spend all day at home brewing when you can be out trying to catch fish! Out in the great outdoors, sun on the face, dolphins and whales swimming past (and they do regulary), penguines trying to take your bait (well, just one - but he is my arch nemesis), wonderful views, great weather, lobster pot in the shallows, and drinking homebrew at the same time (well, the penguine only comes past at 3:30pm and I have always managed to get the bait out of the water before it got snared. :super: If there is a better lifestyle it would be owning a strip club - but thats already on the list!

Actually, I have been looking for a name for my brewery, started with 'Bad Ass brewery Incorporated', then thought of 'Australian National Brewery' (but that is a bit pompass). I got to say that 'Batemans Bay Automated Brewery' is the best so far! Nice! I can use that, yea?

Favorite fishing spot that isnt insanely dangerous: Well, only nearly got washed off once :unsure:

 

[bum]

What is that?

 

[Bandito]

I still dont understand?