Fresh Wort V Ag

[geoffi]

An interesting question.

Here's my recipe for 20L of Aussie black ale. (I normally get about 80 pc efficiency.)

3.25 kg. Australian Traditional Ale
0.35 kg. Crystal
0.20 kg. Chocolate
0.10 kg. Black Patent
0.25 kg. Cane Sugar
20 g. Nugget (Pellets, 9 %AA) boiled 60 min.
20 g. East Kent Goldings (Pellets, 5.00 %AA) boiled 1 min.
Yeast : Nottingham

Fermentables, I figure come to about $11.
Hops, about $2.
Yeast about $3 (Even using liquid I'd figure on getting at least five brews out of a $15 purchase without going to much trouble.)
Gas for the burner will be another couple of dollars, although I've never really worked that one out.

So that comes to about $18 for 20 litres, roughly saving $20 on a FWK.

What's your time worth is another consideration of course. But if you enjoy doing it that's not really an issue.

I've done a couple of FWK's, 1 black ale and 1 belgian lager and they were very good.
They are an AG reduced to 15l anyway, you just top them up to 23l.
Bit off topic but I'm finally planning my AG setup, how much does an average AG brew cost, say an ausie black ale??

Dave

 

[matti]

23-30l
$30-$35 if you don't buy bulk.

$15-20 for grains
$6-8 for hops
$4-10 yeast
$? GAS

I am sure you can bring it down to less then $20 if bulk buy and split/harvest the yeast.

 

[Pumpy]

FWK are the same as AG

It depends how you value your time .

some would say that Ag brewing is better than Sex !!

well you do have to get up at six o' clock in the morning on a Sunday on your own and mash in the cold .

spend the next five hours saving four dollars an hour labour mashing your favourite brew .

then if you have not spent your last five hours wisely you will spend another hour cleaning up all your mess!!

The value of this Ag mash compared to your FWK .(includes what you may have missed staying in a warm bed on a Sunday morning)

'Invaluable' !!!!!!

I suppose it is just another form of creation .


Pumpy

 

[Aaron]

On the original topic. I think this is even more basic than regular kits and requires even less brewing skills. For me part of brewing is the process.

I have never done a fresh wort kit so can't comment on their quality. It just isn't brewing.

 

[haysie]

FWK are the same as AG

It depends how you value your time .

some would say that Ag brewing is better than Sex !!


I suppose it is just another form of creation .


Pumpy

versus pro creation :wub:

haysie

 

[DWC]

On the original topic. I think this is even more basic than regular kits and requires even less brewing skills. For me part of brewing is the process.

I have never done a fresh wort kit so can't comment on their quality. It just isn't brewing.

Don't really agree with that. Easier, yes. Requires even less brewing skills, no. You can still play around with a FWK same as you can with a K&K. I didn't 'cause I liked them as they were.
You still need the same sanitization and temp. control regime, it's just a matter of topping up with water as oposed to mixing can and sugars and topping up with water.
Thanks matti & Geoffi, so, not necessarily cheaper, just better :beerbang:
Cheers

Dave

 

[Guest Lurker]

Don't really agree with that. Easier, yes. Requires even less brewing skills, no. Cheers

Dave

No, really, it does require no brewing skills. Brewing is the process of extracting fermentable sugars from malted grain. Making beer from a FWK is called fermentation. Which also requires skills.

 

[dc59]

Just out of curiosity guest lurker, are you suggesting K+K brewers aren't actually 'brewing' also since they're not extracting their fermentables from grains.

I don't have anywhere near as much experience as most brewers here (only being a partial man) but I believe the whole process (mashing, sparging, fermenting, etc) are all apart of brewing. So under my understanding, having a good fermentation and sanitizing process, IS demonstrating good brewing skills. Even though they haven't done the whole process themselves.

Dave

 

[Jazzafish]

I second that...

Brewing is brewing, fermenting is fermenting. Both are vital steps in the art of beer making. FWK's simply take the recipe calculation and brewing out of the equation. They are brewed well in my experience and I can recomend them.

It doesn't matter what method of brewing you choose, if you can't control your fermentation then your beer will suffer.

 

[LethalCorpse]

Went to find a definition in order to differ with Guest Lurker, but I'm hard pressed to find one which doesn't include steeping and boiling. The original sense is "to make a drink by boiling"

 

[Jazzafish]

So under my understanding, having a good fermentation and sanitizing process, IS demonstrating good brewing skills. Even though they haven't done the whole process themselves.

Dave

No good fermentation and sanitation is demonstrating good fermentation skills. But that is a respectable part of beer making.

Being a partial brewer is demonstrating some or part brewing skills.

A K&K user is simply a fermentation controller.

 

[OSF]

Hi All,
Interested to know if any Ag'ers have brewed a fresh wort from NDbrewing or Ezybrew yet? If so, how does the fresh wort stack up? We all know where AG'ers sit in regard to kits, but what about this gear?
I am in the camp that AG beats kits - modified too, every time - but if this fresh wort is up there, then the only reason to AG is the pleasure (and pain) of the process? Fresh wort is even quicker than K&K, so if the quality is right....
Whadayaureckon? :huh:
mckenry.

Hey McKenry,

Being relatively new to brewing, the opportunity of using FWK's is a good one as it has allowed me to focus on learning about and sorting out the yeast / fermentation and temp control issues. Though my ultimate goal is to go Ag (hopefully soon), I figure that producing good beer time and time again is about quality product, standardisation and process control (obviously also including all the other factors such as the knowledge and experience etc that go into this). For me going Ag straight off won't make my beer any better untill I get the yeast and fermentation side of things is fully under control. With this approach (and the effort I have put into this side of the equation) I am willing to wager that I currently make better beer of a more reproduceable quality than some of the Ag guys who constantly are only too happy to tell us how it is from their "wealth of quality knowledge and experience" (sic) and how the rest of us are not "real" brewers.

Ultimately however, the thing for me is that the FWK and K&K beer I make is technically not my own and given this, till such time that I am fully into Ag (and even then, only when I am making my own recipes), I won't claim to be a "real" brewer. Having said this however I am a homebrewer and still consider myself a "brewer".

Till I achieve this "real" brewer status the FWK's have allowed me to make good beer time and time again. I figure it's good to always have one keg of something you can rely on in the fridge why you are also experimenting with other things and the FWK's allow me to do this.

With regard to the FWK's I do however never make them up to 23L, and usually only make them up to about 18L or so at max (if that). I don't care about the $$ because for me I make home brew because I want "good beer" not necessary "cheap beer".

Favourites FWK's to date include the ND Cerny Pivo and the Ocktoberfest and again this year when I find out a new batch of Ocktoberfest is coming out (regardless of if I am into Ag by this time) I will go to my local HBS and order 3 or 4 so I can secure them before they even get to the shop.


Cheers
OSF

 

[sponge]

My last two batches have been FWK's. They are fairly expensive, but do produce good results. The only reason i did them was just to see if they were any good, and yes, i think they are a nice drop

But, when i do them it feels like im cheating. Although im not an AG'er and am just doing extract + grains, the whole process of steeping grains and boiling hops is one of my favorite parts of homebrewing.


So although FWK's are good, if done correctly with good yeast and fermentation/sanitation practises, they take away half the fun of homebrewing. When people ask how you made them all you can say is 'I bought a 15L drum of it and added 5L of water'. It doesn't sound very impressive. When you talk about choosing different grains and hops, that sounds a whole deal better


Just my 2c worth.


Cheers, Sponge

 

[Lukes]

K&K, Kits and bits & NC Cube fermenter's.
You have begun to cross to the dark side & the dark force is strong with you.
So Join us.
Join us.
AG is your destiny.

 

[sponge]

if i showed a bit of nipple will you give me an ag setup?


eh eh eh B)

 

[crozdog]

My last two batches have been FWK's. They are fairly expensive, but do produce good results.

RANT ON

I don't get the whole expense factor with FWK's. Here are a number of comparisons:

• Sure I can make my own AG for a fraction of the cost of an FWk, but I don't have to spend 4-5 hours creating it, and if I was to charge myself what my employer charges for me as an hourly rate, I'd be buying FWk's instead . :blink:
• I can buy a tin of goo, a can of malt, a pack of booster and some hops and I will spend about the same as I can buy a FWK for. The resulting beer will still be a K&K brew - most likely with the signature "tang" h34r: B)
• A FWK makes 15-23l at a cost of $35-40. A slab of commercial beer stubbies contains 9l and costs $35-40+. So a FWK costs about half the price of buying a slab of usually ordinary beer.

RANT OFF

I'm not picking on you sponge, you just happened to write the last post that mentioned price. Apologies in advance for any unintended offence :beer:

 

[sponge]

Sall good mate. I in no way question any homebrew in terms of price compared to commercial beer. Being able to make my own beer for cheaper then i can buy it was one of the main reasons I (and probably a lot of other people) started homebrewing, and FWKs are still much cheaper then buying commercial beer, and taste a lot better

I was just comparing it to other forms of homebrews. And also the fact that you're paying more for it, but missing out on what I find to be my favourite part of brewing, besides drinking it of course :chug: The quality of FWK is very high, but id prefer to drink something of slightly less quality, which I have made, then to just buy a 15L drum of it and let it ferment for 10days or whatever.


Yes they are very very good in terms of ease-of-use, time, and quality, but in terms of DIY, it just misses the whole 'homebrew' feel in my books


Once again, that's my opinion, and each to their own


Sponge

 

[capitalfinancial]

Yeah I have to agree that cost is definetly a consideration that I make with this hobby, probably because thats the way I am. Although its great fun to make beer, I like to know that I can make 2 slabs for the price of one. Time excluded.
That brings me interested in AG to make the most natural and best possible tasting drop within my skills and knoweledge.
But anyway, if I were to do a FWK it should be close to what I could expect quality wise from a sucessful AG brew?
If thats the case then I'm gonna try one ASAP. Great thread :icon_cheers:

 

[crozdog]

But anyway, if I were to do a FWK it should be close to what I could expect quality wise from a sucessful AG brew?
If thats the case then I'm gonna try one ASAP. Great thread :icon_cheers:

toby,

FWK's are AG beers that have been poured into a cube instead of being cooled & fermented. Give em a go. For a cheap easy way to get into AG, checkout brewing in a bag (BIAB). There is a lot of good info including recipes right here on AHB.