Foam Control Question

[Thirsty Boy]

Pretty high micro count too... I wouldn't add that to a fermenter. Might be OK in a kettle.

grrrrr - you bastards are starting to talk me out of using this stuff (in the fermenter at least) and I really like it... damn you all.

Of course.... if anyone thinks it might carry over from the kettle to the fermentor.... then the bugs would be dead.

 

[Pumpy]

I like this gear... starters are a breeze, double batches dont end up the floor when I am boiling, my 25L fementors hold a few more useful litres than they did before.....

But does the stuff carry over between steps??

If there are 5 or six drops in my kettle, will that last till the fermentor? will the few drops in my starter do the trick for the fermentor?? and more importantly, if it does carry over (I have so far assumed it doesn't) will all the separate additions add up to a point where it might do the beer some harm??

TB

Thirsty

The Foam control for the kettle that MHB Marks Home Brew sells is excellent

I used it in about 10 brews with no adverse effect if .

I would highly reccomend it for double batches if you live 'close to the edge'

I do filter my beer, but I think it drops out in the yeast layer .

Pumpy

 

[schooey]

Thirsty

The Foam control for the kettle that MHB Marks Home Brew sells is excellent

I used it in about 10 brews with no adverse effect if .

I would highly reccomend it for double batches if you live 'close to the edge'

I do filter my beer, but I think it drops out in the yeast layer .

Pumpy

+1

I gave it a run boiling 72L in an 18 gal keg boiler. Usual foam started to rise and just as I was about to panic and turn down the flame it all just collapsed on itself and dissipated. haven't fermented the batch yet so can't comment on the krausen/head retention thing

 

[kook]

I use a drop per litre in my starters. Its the only way i've been able to stop them from foaming over on the stove.

I can fill an erlenmeyer to the top marker line (i.e. 2L or 5L) now and not have to worry about a boilover.

 

[Sammus]

I use a drop per litre in my starters. Its the only way i've been able to stop them from foaming over on the stove.

I can fill an erlenmeyer to the top marker line (i.e. 2L or 5L) now and not have to worry about a boilover.

Is that of the hop based gear or the white goo the OP is referring to? erlenmeyer flasks boilover way too easily

 

[MHB]

Just to clarify,
we are talking about two completely different substances, one is a natural hop extract the other is a synthetic organo-silicate

Hop Anti Foam
MSDS View attachment 24722
Product Info Sheet View attachment 24723
This is a heavy oily waxy substance extracted from hops when they are processed into hop products like Iso-Alpha, Tetra Hop, and Hop Oils etc.
Being made entirely out of Hops when it is used in the kettle it breaks down and is left in the kettle with the trub. There is no possibility of it getting into the fermenter and in any way affecting the beer.

On the down side, it is totally useless in the fementer, it simply isn't made for the job, there is a matching Fementer Anti Foam also made from hops, it is a major PITA to remove if you aren't filtering your beer with a commercial (style) DE filter.
My trials didn't encourage me to stock it, although I think would be excellent for commercial breweries trying for the more natural beer experience.

Silicone Anti Foam
History Wiki Link
Defoamer Link
White slightly oily water dispersible liquid synthesised from Silicon (the Element) and organic molecules.

Silicone is man made and is persistent, meaning that it wont break down in the kettle or the fermenter and is only very slowly degraded in nature (can be a waste disposal issue).
It will carry on through each step in the brewing process. If you are using this product you must insure that you remove every trace of it before you package your beer or it can kill the head.

Fortunately it has a high affinity for DE (Diatomaceous Earth), Keiselguhr, Perlite and Cellulose fibbers: in other words all the products used for commercial filtration of beer.

The big advantage Silicone has is that it's very effective in the Fermenter as well as in the kettle.

Of the two the silicone product is the most effective, if you are aware of the potential problems and exercise due care it can be a very useful tool.

I prefer the natural Hop Anti Foam, but it's just that a preference.

MHB

 

[Tony]

I have used it a few times and it works well. Never had a problem with the beer afterwards.

After watching Luke at potters pump it into the kettle one day i figured it cant be too bad!

I have some i got from MHB and usually save it for wheat beers that are a bitch to stop boiling over.

cheers

 

[dig]

After watching Luke at potters pump it into the kettle one day i figured it cant be too bad!

I have some i got from MHB and usually save it for wheat beers that are a bitch to stop boiling over.

cheers

It tends to break down a bit in the kettle and you'll sometimes need to make several additions. I'd rather blast the cap down with a hose. Most commercial guys wouldn't use antifoam in the fermenter as the vessels are usually designed with a 25-30% head space. Mind you, I have stuffed 4 brews into a 3 brew tank with a crap load of antifoam...

From a purists perspective, it is wrong. Save the silicon for your girlfriend.

 

[Tony]

Just boiled a beer with 50% grist shared between wheat and rye and it foamed like hell but reducing the heat and stiring for a few minuites till it breaks works........ just

 

[Thirsty Boy]

After watching my re-circulation rate nearly double becaue of 2ml of betaglucanse added to the mash/lauter tun -- I am over being a purist. I care about making good beer is a result of all organic hippy approved methods and ingredients, well and good, thats what I will aim for. But if I can make great beer using some enzymes, and some anitfoam and some polyclar and filtering, or some liquid hops for aroma.... well, if you can taste the difference I'll stop using it, but in the meantime if it makes my life easier, makes my beer clearer and stops my kettle boiling over... I don't see why not.

I care about the beer in the glass... not about the rubbish ideals that went before.

However - I can get the hop based antifoam and I will give that a go for my starters and the kettle. Assuming it works, I will save the other stuff for those few occasions when I need to jam the extra litres into the fermenter

Thanks for the information guys (especially mds sheets mark and the commercial insight dig)

TB

 

[dig]

Another regular commercial trick that you may be interested in Thirsty is brewing at high gravity. Tooheys Old, as an extreme example, is brewed at about 8% abv and then cut back to 4.2% with water. Nearly 50/50 beer/water... almost 2 brews from one. More common though would be to brew the beer to an OG of about 15 plato (1060) and then cut it back to 4.5-5% with a smaller water addition at the filter.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Yeah, most of the beers at work are brewed high gravity. 14-18 plato. But then you end up with more beer... and volume is only a problem in my house because I have too much of it. In the past when i have occasionally brewed double batches, I have made them high gravity to a small extent just because of kettle space limitations, diluted into the fermentor - but a nice new boil kettle has arrived and I'm good to brew at finished product strength even on double batches now.

Still, if I it was useful, made my life easier and most importantly, didn't effect the beer quality - I'd do it in a second

I think there are quite a lot of people who no-chill into the smaller 17L cubes who regularly run at higher gravity in the brewhouse and only dilute in the fermentor - I dont know if any/many people are diluting post fermentation at home though.

I wonder what that Tooheys Old would taste like if you could get a pre-dilution sample into a bottle .... almost an RIS

 

[dig]

Yeah, most of the beers at work are brewed high gravity. 14-18 plato.

Oooops, I forgot you worked at a big brewery...

I have tried maturation gravity Old... nice, but sweet. Has an AE of about four and a half.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I e-mailed the question about carrying over from boil kettle to fermentor to More Beer in the states (people seem to have been using the white gooey stuff there for a fair few years now) - and got the following response

...................................................

Hello,

You should not need to add any more Foam Control if adding it to your boil. Foam control is absorbed by the yeast cells once yeast has been pitched. However, adding more will not hurt anything. Foam Control is thought to help with head retention as it helps to retain the properties that create a nice full head in your finished product.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks,

Robin Wada

Customer Service

MoreFlavor! Inc.

..........................................................

Not exactly a super technical response, but unambiguous at least. It seems that if you add this stuff to the boil kettle - then you shouldn't need to add more to the fermenter. Which is nice, because that takes care of the issue with a less than zero micro count, and it might save people who have decided they want to use it, a dozen or so drops per brew.

TB