Five Star 5.2 Ph Stabilizer

[therook]

And for those that are interested and with good scales a 23L batch need 11g... I feel better measuring it than using a tablespoon.

Jye,

That contradicts ( sp ) what cj says in post 4 ????????

rook

 

[Jye]

GENERAL USE DIRECTIONS
Use 5.2 at a rate of approx. 2oz. per 31 gallons of water used in your brew. Calculate
the amount of water based on the total volume in the kettle (ex. 7bbl. Leaving kettle
use 14oz. of 52). Place 52 in the mash tun while you are mashing in. If desired, dissolve
in a small amount of water before adding to the mash.

Rook it came straight from the spec sheet.

2oz. per 31 gallons
56g per 117L
11g per 23L

 

[therook]

thanks Jye

 

[Hogan]

I used the 5.2 in yesterdays ESB. Only put a teaspoon (7gms) into the mash and also used Calcium Sulphate (gypsum) in the brewing liquor. I use the pH strips and got a reading from the mash around 5.0

My water is from the tank.

My usual Brewhouse efficiency for this beer is around 80% but this time I got 84% into the boiler and 88% into the fermenter.

With the soft tank water and the addition of gypsum, I think I could get by using less than the 7 gms of 5.2 and this will make the 450gm jar go a long way.:super:


Cheers, Hoges.

 

[Jye]

Just an update that Ive been using 5g for a 21L batch and still hitting the correct pH.

Hogan you might want to check your efficiency, I dont think it can go up from post boil to the fermenter? :huh:

 

[Hogan]

Hogan you might want to check your efficiency, I dont think it can go up from post boil to the fermenter? :huh:

Yes Jye - a little measurement deficiency on the volume stick of 1.2 litres into the boiler made me 4% short.


Cheers, Hoges.

 

[wessmith]

Dont forget that wort "shrinks" 4% from boiling temp to 20C

Wes

 

[fraser_john]

I fully balanced (to Burton on Trent) my mash water (rainwater) prior to brewing an ESB on Saturday and according to promash it should have had a PH of around 8!! I used four teaspoons (40gms??) of 5.2 and tested the PH at around 5.5 after dough in.

Did a three rinse batch sparge, testing PH after dumping in the HLT water, every time around 5.0, so it is quite capable of maintaining its buffering ability as it rinses out.

Have been very happy with this product so far.

 

[Hogan]

Dont forget that wort "shrinks" 4% from boiling temp to 20C

Wes

Yes Wes but I did not think that a reduction in volume through cooling after the boil would have any effect on the efficiency as it does for 'volume into boiler' after mashing???

In Beersmith a miscalculation on the measuring stick from mash into the boiler can make a significant difference to the reading for 'efficiency into boiler'.

I also well realize that I, like others, am also prone to equipment measurement failure when measuring the volume. A little mistake can make a significant difference.


Cheers, Hoges.

 

[wessmith]

Gidday Hoges,

Certainly the efficiency should be taken on what goes into the kettle to make up the required pre-boil volume. We use a dipstick on the bigger systems too and will always top up the kettle to ensure we hit the right post boil volume. Into this "guesstimate" we have to take into account evaporation, length of boil and the wort shrinkage along with other losses in the system. Also when setting up Promash for micro use we make sure the 4 % is included in the total "water needed" calculation. That way you can pretty much hit the required brew length/ABV most of the time.

FWIW, we tend to hover aropund the 87% efficiency mark most of the time and yes, getting the pH to 5.2 to 5.4 is critical in achieving that. But so is the crush, mash temps and water profiles.

Wes

Yes Wes but I did not think that a reduction in volume through cooling after the boil would have any effect on the efficiency as it does for 'volume into boiler' after mashing???

In Beersmith a miscalculation on the measuring stick from mash into the boiler can make a significant difference to the reading for 'efficiency into boiler'.

I also well realize that I, like others, am also prone to equipment measurement failure when measuring the volume. A little mistake can make a significant difference.


Cheers, Hoges.

 

[bcp]

3 or 4 years on, do brewers in melbourne bother using 5.2 pH stabilizer?

Are there certain types of beers that it's more important for?

(you can't say i'm not checking the old posts to see if there's been a previous discussion!)

 

[WarmBeer]

I would be keen to get feedback on how this improves efficiency, especially with Melbourne suburban water.

Have gotten woeful efficiency on my first 3 AG's, and would like to try to improve it.

 

[Supra-Jim]

Hi WB,

Can you define 'woeful efficiency'?

I have been using 5.2 on my last few brew (4-5) i can't it has revolutionised efficiency or the end product, but it hasn't negatively effected it either.

Cheers SJ

 

[Fourstar]

I would be keen to get feedback on how this improves efficiency, especially with Melbourne suburban water.
Have gotten woeful efficiency on my first 3 AG's, and would like to try to improve it.

Assuming you have bog standard low mineral water in melbourne (using tap water), 5.2 will probably do sweet nothing for you as you mash pH will probabaly be spot on anyway, especially if you are brewing low coloured beers (although anything up to amber is fine). AFAIK its designed for water w/ high alkalinity to buffer it.

You can use 5.2 for repeatability/safety net or to buffer any dark malts acid in the mash (e.g. brewing a stout with low alkaline water). If anything, i'd get yourself some calcium sulfate or calcium chloride for light coloured beers and chalk for dark beer (stout & porters) and add a pinch of either to your strike water (a tsp of chalk for dark beers however). The calcium is really the only thing you need to help you with enzyme activity and conversion. I found my efficiency jumped by 3-5 points as soon as i started doing salt additions (i dont know if this is coincedental).

Dont worry too much about thorwing your mash completly out of whack as we are essentially starting with a base of nothing. An addition of calcium will drop your mash pH slightly, but nothing excessive. Chalk will give you some alkalinity whcih is needed for the acidic darker malts but wont creep too high as the Ca will help buffer it somewhat.

At the end of the day, i'd recommend doing a little reading on water adjustment (palmers is a quick easy start).

Cheers! :beerbang:

 

[WarmBeer]

Hi WB,

Can you define 'woeful efficiency'?

I have been using 5.2 on my last few brew (4-5) i can't it has revolutionised efficiency or the end product, but it hasn't negatively effected it either.

Cheers SJ

About 55%, albeit I'm still learning my equipment and technique.

Have been using the BIASIAE (Brew In A Sheet In An Esky) method, with a batch sparge after draining the first runnings. Current esky is too small to do a proper mash-out, although I added a couple of litres of boiling water at the end to raise it a degree or two.

Last brew I let the bag (well, technically, sheet) drain suspended for about 15 mins, and I got a couple more litres of wort into the boil. It's still in the cube, so haven't checked actual OG yet, but still ended up 5 gravity points lower than the BeerSmith estimate on my pre-boil wort.

 

[WarmBeer]

Assuming you have bog standard low mineral water in melbourne (using tap water), 5.2 will probably do sweet nothing for you as you mash pH will probabaly be spot on anyway, especially if you are brewing low coloured beers (although anything up to amber is fine). AFAIK its designed for water w/ high alkalinity to buffer it.

You can use 5.2 for repeatability/safety net or to buffer any dark malts acid in the mash (e.g. brewing a stout with low alkaline water). If anything, i'd get yourself some calcium sulfate or calcium chloride for light coloured beers and chalk for dark beer (stout & porters) and add a pinch of either to your strike water (a tsp of chalk for dark beers however). The calcium is really the only thing you need to help you with enzyme activity and conversion. I found my efficiency jumped by 3-5 points as soon as i started doing salt additions (i dont know if this is coincedental).

Dont worry too much about thorwing your mash completly out of whack as we are essentially starting with a base of nothing. An addition of calcium will drop your mash pH slightly, but nothing excessive. Chalk will give you some alkalinity whcih is needed for the acidic darker malts but wont creep too high as the Ca will help buffer it somewhat.

At the end of the day, i'd recommend doing a little reading on water adjustment (palmers is a quick easy start).

Cheers! :beerbang:

Good information (as usual) Fourstar,

Will pick up some Calcium Sulphate and chalk (hmmm, the kids have got a bunch of chalk sticks they use for drawing, wonder if I can use that? :lol: ) next time I do some brew shopping.

Have read the relevant sections in HTB, but I think I need to mix theory with practice in order to fully understand the chemistry involved.

Cheers

 

[Supra-Jim]

Possibly consider some of salt additions as per Fourstars recommendations above. I have only just started playing with these things, so will refrain from too much comment.

I'm still working at getting my efficiency consistantly at around 70% (thouigh i think my issues may be volume measurement related).

Cheers SJ

 

[kevin_smevin]

Assuming you have bog standard low mineral water in melbourne (using tap water), 5.2 will probably do sweet nothing for you as you mash pH will probabaly be spot on anyway, especially if you are brewing low coloured beers (although anything up to amber is fine). AFAIK its designed for water w/ high alkalinity to buffer it.

You can use 5.2 for repeatability/safety net or to buffer any dark malts acid in the mash (e.g. brewing a stout with low alkaline water). If anything, i'd get yourself some calcium sulfate or calcium chloride for light coloured beers and chalk for dark beer (stout & porters) and add a pinch of either to your strike water (a tsp of chalk for dark beers however). The calcium is really the only thing you need to help you with enzyme activity and conversion. I found my efficiency jumped by 3-5 points as soon as i started doing salt additions (i dont know if this is coincedental).

Dont worry too much about thorwing your mash completly out of whack as we are essentially starting with a base of nothing. An addition of calcium will drop your mash pH slightly, but nothing excessive. Chalk will give you some alkalinity whcih is needed for the acidic darker malts but wont creep too high as the Ca will help buffer it somewhat.

At the end of the day, i'd recommend doing a little reading on water adjustment (palmers is a quick easy start).

Cheers! :beerbang:

Just to add a bit here. Dont use chalk. Its basically 100% insoluble (about 10mg/L solubility) so it doesn't change the chemistry of your water at all. If you want to add carbonate use baking soda. I've also done some experiments with pH, including some with pH 5.2 stabilizer. Using Melbourne Tap water and 100ppm Ca salts in pale beers the pH is much higher then 5.2 (i have a pH meter). I found that i need to add both calcium salts and acid to get the pH in the right ball park. The addition of both Ca salts and getting pH spot on will greatly increase efficiency as they enhance the activity of amylase enzymes, especially B-amylase. So if your going to head down this path you'll have to adjust mash temps etc because B-amylase becomes much more active and you end up with lower final gravities. Thats just what i've found in my set up, may be different for other people.

 

[manticle]

Good information (as usual) Fourstar,

Will pick up some Calcium Sulphate and chalk (hmmm, the kids have got a bunch of chalk sticks they use for drawing, wonder if I can use that? :lol: ) next time I do some brew shopping.

Have read the relevant sections in HTB, but I think I need to mix theory with practice in order to fully understand the chemistry involved.

Cheers

Personally I'd try and work out what you can change in your technique/process before moving to water additions. You should be able to hit much higher than 55%.

I don't use any additions (will be playing around with them at some point) and I regularly hit 70%. Yesterday I got slightly higher and I've had very slightly lower before but it's usually pretty consistent.

Chalk is traditionally just calcium carbonate - I read recently that CaCO3 is soluble in acetic acid (not sure about other acids). However I believe modern chalk is calcium sulphate (gypsum).

Are you working out your efficiency from pre-boil gravity or post boil?

 

[Fourstar]

Just to add a bit here. Dont use chalk. Its basically 100% insoluble (about 10mg/L solubility) so it doesn't change the chemistry of your water at all. If you want to add carbonate use baking soda. I've also done some experiments with pH, including some with pH 5.2 stabilizer.

Yes very true, chalk is diffucult to dissolve but the method in my madness was to help them control the amount of carbonates they put into their mash as adding alkalinity, uncontrolled (if they do not have gram scales) via baking soda is abit of a dangerous job, especially if you dont add Ca hardness. The mash does 1/2 the job at dissolving it but is not as effective as an acid. A way to use chalk (a bit of a PITA) via acid is to put your mash water into an empty corny keg with your chalk and carbonate it. This creates a bicarbonate and Ca.

By adding CO2 we create carbonic acid and its the carbonic acid that will aid in dissolving the chalk.