First Weizen, Need Help

[Darren]

My recipe is simple. Half a bucket of pale wheat malt, half a bucket of pils malt. Whack it in the tun with hot water. Adjust temp with immersion heater or cold water until 64C is achieved. Mash for an hour while heating sparge water. Recirculate a couple litres, then run into kettle. Bitter ~16IBU with a noble hop. Ferment, serve. Easy beer, no need to agonise over it.

PostM, that is the of funniest posts I have read for a longtime.

Wheat beers can be so easy and also so difficult. Yeast, not malt makes a wheat (banana, clove ,bubblegum) not the long and convoluted malt rests. Little to no hop is best.

I must also point out that the recent mass-introduction of single strains of dry-yeast will severely limit brewers ability to produce a good wheat beer. This also applies to production of great homebrew with dry lager and ale yeast. With no affiliation, I support the pure liquid culture.


cheers

Darren

 

[Stuster]

I must also point out that the recent mass-introduction of single strains of dry-yeast will severely limit brewers ability to produce a good wheat beer. This also applies to production of great homebrew with dry lager and ale yeast. With no affiliation, I support the pure liquid culture.

Got to admit that I'm confused here (guess I must be as dumb as you think I am, hey). Are you saying that dry yeasts are inferior because they are single strains (as are most liquid strains) or because they are not pure (no longer an issue)?

I like using both forms and have found that both work fine. There's so much more variety with liquid, but dry means you can get enough yeast cells without having to make a starter. And they're cheaper.

 

[Darren]

Got to admit that I'm confused here (guess I must be as dumb as you think I am, hey). Are you saying that dry yeasts are inferior because they are single strains (as are most liquid strains) or because they are not pure (no longer an issue)?

I like using both forms and have found that both work fine. There's so much more variety with liquid, but dry means you can get enough yeast cells without having to make a starter. And they're cheaper.

Hey Stuster,

I am saying that the dry yeasts are inferior and only come in a few different strains. The problem will arise when the liquid yeast manufacturers have only a very small market. Could result in them shutting up shop and the end of variety.

cheers

Darren

 

[warra48]

Hey Stuster,

I am saying that the dry yeasts are inferior and only come in a few different strains. The problem will arise when the liquid yeast manufacturers have only a very small market. Could result in them shutting up shop and the end of variety.

cheers

Darren

I doubt the homebrew market is a big enough part of a yeast manufacturers business for it to be a make or break proposition for them. After all, the major part of their business is supply of commercial brewers, winemakers, bakers etc.
I guess your point is whether they will continue to supply the homebrew market.
I also like liquid yeasts, (WLP001 is one of my favourites) as I believe they can give a better result, but IMHO they are not for novice brewers, for whom dry yeast is much easier and fool proof.
I have brewed 2 hefeweizens with the new dry wheat yeast, and 1 Pikantus clone on the yeast cake,and have had very good attenuation (the last hefe over 80% from 1052 to 1010). The one thing I am a little disappointed about is that there is not much in the way of banana or bubblegum. It seems liquid is still the way to go to chase those characters if that's what you are after.

 

[Sammus]

re: the whirlfloc comment, I remember theres was a big thread about it that said YES use whirlfloc even in a hefe, since the haze in a hefe is yeast haze, not protein or chill haze.

I've been fingering through mosher's radical brewing as well who also recommends to add flour to the boil to get starch haze, which is, according to him, the correct haze (dunno the diff between this haze and others I've mentioned though... anyone care to comment?).

I used whirlfloc in my saison's and both came out nice and cloudy as expected - if you use the right yeast you should be right, as they arent exactly great floccers.

 

[2brothers]

I doubt the homebrew market is a big enough part of a yeast manufacturers business for it to be a make or break proposition for them. After all, the major part of their business is supply of commercial brewers, winemakers, bakers etc.
I guess your point is whether they will continue to supply the homebrew market.
I also like liquid yeasts, (WLP001 is one of my favourites) as I believe they can give a better result, but IMHO they are not for novice brewers, for whom dry yeast is much easier and fool proof.
I have brewed 2 hefeweizens with the new dry wheat yeast, and 1 Pikantus clone on the yeast cake,and have had very good attenuation (the last hefe over 80% from 1052 to 1010). The one thing I am a little disappointed about is that there is not much in the way of banana or bubblegum. It seems liquid is still the way to go to chase those characters if that's what you are after.

Hey Warra - you've got to watch that you don't over pitch when using dry yeast. I know that the fermentis/Saf dry yeast sachets are a lot more generous cell-count wise cf liquid yeast counterparts ... and over pitching will lead to reduced formation of esters - like the bananna / bubble gum characters you're after (assuming that you selected an appropriate strain in the fisrt place).

 

[tangent]

i agree about the dry yeast having a higher cell count. pitching cold helps stress the yeast and produce the flavours you're after. Personally, I think 50% wheat is too little for my tastes. I prefer ~70%. I also prefer 3068 liquid yeast with an acid rest.
If you want a really easy wheat beer, buy a wort kit.
DrGonzo won't make a beer without a decoction or direct heat stepped mash.
Somewhere in between is probably where you'll end up.
Simple is good, but I'll never be satisfied with the easiest way out. There's so many other options and variables that change your finished beer dramatically.

 

[PostModern]

Simple works well for me with this style, although I think I'll try pitching 1/2 a sachet of WB-06 in my next batch. It definitely lacks the esters I liked in WLP300. Could be overpitching, could be a neutral strain. I let the last batch go up to 23C while fermenting and it still didn't make many esters. There is a trace of fruitiness there, but definitely not banana.

Darren, I agree it would be a shame if there were less varied strains available, but by the same token, I'm glad there are some good dry yeasts out there. Lately I have been getting precious little time to brew at all, the extra time needed for culturing starters and whatnot would mean I wouldn't be brewing at all. WB-06 is a decent yeast for the effort. I must have done something right to get around the severe limit it's imposed on my ability to brew. I will be looking at some fruitier Wyeast strains later in the season, tho.

My simple brewing method and simple yeast pitching have produced so far a couple of great weizens. With more time and possibly more interest in the stlye, I might start fiddling around the edges, but keeping it simple can create some fantastic beer, too.

 

[tangent]

why make a starter when you want to underpitch with a wheat anyway?
just chuck it in and let it grow in the wort.

 

[sah]

why make a starter when you want to underpitch with a wheat anyway?
just chuck it in and let it grow in the wort.

Because a scraping of yeast from a slant is underpitching to the extreme.

 

[Whistlingjack]

re: the whirlfloc comment, I remember theres was a big thread about it that said YES use whirlfloc even in a hefe, since the haze in a hefe is yeast haze, not protein or chill haze.

Nothing to say you can't use it, but its wasting money when the cloudiness is acceptible for this style. But then...

The high protein content of wheat impairs clarity in an unfiltered beer, although the level of haze is somewhat variable.

Source: BJCP Style Guidelines

WJ

 

[SJW]

Interesting stuff. But on the dry v Liquid debate......... I have used both extensivly and always find myself being lazy and going back to dry yeast. With the S-189 Nottingham or Windsor and the WB-06 and making All Grain Beers its pretty hard to make a dud brew. I wont say Liquid is not the best but I always find myself resorting back to the dry stuff.
Anyway since I have gone over to a keg system and converted my little fermentation bar fridge, I am sick to death of not being able to ferment whenever I like. So in the new year sales I am after a chest freezer. I should of just bought one in the first place. But SWMBO was not too happy with my plans until I said I could have a dedicated tap for her Ginger Beer..........and the other 3 for me Happy days. Anyone know where to get a nice newish chest freezer?

Steve

 

[Adamt]

You missed the KMart special a month or so ago... 200L chest freezer for $300. Not sure if they'll do it again any time soon though, and with centrex going bust 6 months ago it's getting harder.

 

[SJW]

You missed the KMart special a month or so ago... 200L chest freezer for $300. Not sure if they'll do it again any time soon though, and with centrex going bust 6 months ago it's getting harder.

BITCH. I new I saw a cheap one NEW somewhere.

 

[Whistlingjack]

I'll be looking for a freezer in the new year sales as well, but if you have the space as I have, maybe a coolroom would be the go. Thinking along these lines.

On the protein issue, I like the description of this beer as "liquid bread". The wheat proteins make it a nourishing and satisfying drink...

Higher proteins also give the haze typical for this style but will affect flavour stability and shelf life. That means, drink it fresh and don't expect it to age well.

WJ

 

[Adamt]

Just pitched my first liquid yeast into my first wheat, with my first decoction. Wort was reaaaal cloudy, had some crazy kind of gray sludge on top of my mash after sparging and my decoctions didnt give me the right temperature rests, but efficiency went up and everything seems to be normal... I hope! Pitched at 23, in the freezerator set at 19 with 3068.

 

[Whistlingjack]

"Grey sludge" will be proteins from the wheat. No need to worry about this...

The wort will be more cloudy due to the wheat flour from the crush.

This will also show up as the haze in the finished beer.

"Liquid bread"...gotta love this style...

WJ

 

[Adamt]

Woke up this morning to a fermenter full of dead flat wort. I won't be a happy chappy if it doesnt fire!

 

[Adamt]

Trying to increase it this morning until the yeast fires.. easy to raise the temperature in summer... but not when its 17C, windy and cloudy The gods are laughing at me.

 

[Paul H]

Adam,

Try bumping up your temp. a couple of degrees. 19C is too low. You won't get any "banana" at that temp.

Wally

I would humbly disagree, after reading Brewing Classic Styles by Jamil Zainasheff & John Palmer I made a hefe using WLP 300 based on the pitching temps suggested by JZ on page 192. JZ goes onto explain that it was suggested to him to ferment at 17C, he like myself was sceptical however as he found & I did 17C gives you a great hefe profile.