First Time Siphoning Problem!

[UsernameTaken]

So after some cloudy keg issues I have added gelatine at the start of my clod crash and moved to siphoning from fermenter to keg.

And today after 6 days at 3c I attempted my first 2 batches.

First one, IPA, US 05 yeast, lovely clear beer into the fermenter. Only problem was occasional snag on the dry hop bag. Mental note, no need to use hops bags now that I'm siphoning!

Second one, Mid Strength Pale Ale, Windsor yeast, DISASTER! Snagged on the hop bag early and started to pull in lots of bubbles. Tried to reposition the siphon and cloudy **** started kicking up all over the place. Freaked out, yelled at the wall, pulled out the siphon, sanitized my hand and arm and reached in and pulled out the hop bag. Resealed the fermenter and put it back in the fridge at 3c in hope that **** will drop out again?

After such a great result with the first batch I don't know how I screwed the second one up so badly?

The only real difference between batches is the yeast, so I am wondering do different yeasts create more or less solid yeast beds when they have been cold crashed?

Or does anyone have any other theories as to what might have happened?

Cheers,
UNT

 

[user 44743]

Yes, some yeasts settle more firmly (and more quickly) than others. Its also possible that the hop bag had sediment settle on it (perhaps also loose fine hop particles) that came out when you started snagging/sucking at it and moving it about.

A rigid racking cane/tube can be really helpful - either suspended on the edge of the fermenter or with the entry hole a little way up from the end to prevent it sucking up sediment. If you have things like hop bags in there then a mesh cage over the end of the cane can prevent them being sucked at, some people even use finer mesh socks over the cane to filter out loose hops.

 

[damoninja]

First one, IPA, US 05 yeast

Second one, Mid Strength Pale Ale, Windsor yeast

The only real difference between batches is the yeast, so I am wondering do different yeasts create more or less solid yeast beds when they have been cold crashed?

Yep.

US-05 will give a medium fluffy bed, though I too find it settles quite well despite being a medium floccer.

Windsor on the other hand, good luck getting it to settle, I used it a while ago and did cold crash/gelatin, even then the cold crash still had about a 9" zone where yeast were suspended at the bottom, gelatin reduced to about 2".

As far as familiar dry yeasts go, S-04 is probably the neatest when it comes to creating a tidy cake.

 

[TheWiggman]

When I started home brewing I thought yeast was the thing that turned sugar into alcohol and that was it. I mean it's yeast, it's a biological product that just causes chemical reactions to make alcohol. It's dry and in sachets, no different to stuff you can buy in a supermarket to make bread. Right?
Wrong.
The differences in yeast don't end at flavours and fermentation behaviours. Some will settle rock hard and others will remain a fluffy cloud that can churn just from taking the lid off. Soemthing like WLP005 flocks up like a pool flocculant which settles so hard it's difficult to disturb from swirling in a flask. Others like most lager yeasts will suspend very easily. The plus side is that once it's in the keg, a yeast which has dropped out will do the same in a keg and get sucked out from the first few pours. So don't be too worry if you suck up a bit of trub, just do your best to minimise it.

Regarding your technique, how exactly are you siphoning? I have this racking cane which has a small sediment reducer which is little more than cosmetic. Beer Belly's cane has a small support with it which holds it up, which is a ripper idea in my opinion. I personally get the siphon going somewhere in the middle, and lower it down as the liquid level lowers and as soon as it starts to draw in trub I pull it out. Doing it this way you should be able to work around the hop bag (which I still don't fully understand).

 

[UsernameTaken]

Thanks guys, good advice as always!

I am using the easy siphon plastic tube with the pump action and trying to stay close to the top of the liquid level and slowly following it down.

I use the hop bag for dry hopping which was great when I was bottling from the fermenter through the tap, but I don't think I need it now that I am siphoning out the top.

When I got snagged on the hop bag the siphon started sucking in heaps of air. It was when I tried to dislodge it the sediment started flying.

I have take the hop bag out and given the beer another 24hrs at 3c and am just about to try again to keg it!

Cheers,
UNT

 

[technobabble66]

For those who siphon, why? Why not just use a tap?

I'm curious as to whether I'm missing out on this siphoning action, and should ditch my taps.

Edit: Apologies to OP for going somewhat off topic.

 

[UsernameTaken]

I started going from fermenter to keg via tap but was getting too much crap coming through with some beers, so siphoning has resolved this.

I just siphoned my problem beer discussed in this thread after removing the hop bag and giving it another 24hrs at 3c and everything worked really well!

This is the end of dry hopping in hop bags for me. I will just be chucking the dry hops straight into the fermenter from now on and I am looking forward to even greater hop aroma!

Cheers,
UNT

 

[TheWiggman]

I've only siphoned from a carbouy st...eeeecnobable, tap all the way otherwise.

 

[UsernameTaken]

I would prefer to brewing with as few different processes to manage and different pieces of equipment to clean and sterilise as possible.

So I have only started using gelatine and now the siphon because coming out the tap was causing me problems with some beers!

Cheers,
UNT

 

[Grott]

I use a silicon tube that fits snugly onto the tap (no chance of sucking air) and have never had a problem (touch wood).
What happened with some of your beers?

 

[nic0]

What are you guys using to siphoning? My KK auto siphon is a prick of a thing. I have to keep rotating the seal and it only seals properly halfway up the tube.

Edit: spelling

 

[damoninja]

What are you guys using to siphoning? My KK auto siphon is a prick of a thing. I have to keep rotating the seal and it only seals properly halfway up the tube.

Auto siphon, not from KK can't remember where, but never had any issues.

 

[UsernameTaken]

More problems today with my easy siphon despite having the hose jammed over the elbow I was getting heaps of air bubbles down the tube into my keg!

Strangely they were not so visible in the cane or at the top of the tube, but seemed to be appearing half way down on the out side?!?!?

UNT

 

[timmi9191]

I found siphoning caused massive oxidation issues. Its now relegated to the not to be used brew box

 

[Coldspace]

Fermenter on top of fermentation keezer, keg underneath , I use a 13 mm clear line from hardware store sanitised with starsan, you need it long enough to reach over top of fermenter and down to bottom, with other end to bottom of keg. Start siphon with end just below surface of fermenter beer, and drop other end to bottom of corny, no splashing as filling. I then move the end down under the surface as the beer drops. This way I'm only using the clean clear cold crashed beer. Once to bottom and keg 95% full, remove , lid on, purge and carb. Too easy.

 

[UsernameTaken]

How do you start the siphon coldspace?

 

[Coldspace]

Suck it with my mouth, never had an infection or oxidation issue and been doing it for 25 years. I do rinse and spray the hose with starsan well and shake off.

I pressure ferment now, but still use my stainless fermenters occasionally .