First Time Poster, Need Some Advice

[Sully]

Hi All,

I have just startedback from a 4 year hiatus from brewing due to moving town etc etc.. but anyways won't bore you with the details...

I have rekindled the flame and put down a Morgans Golden Saaz Pilsener using 2 kits,23L, no adjuncts, Saflager yeast. I did this previously with 1 kit and no adjuncts at 11.5l and it was quite tasty. I didnt worry about the lagering process back then.

Being a bit rusty, my step by step went roughly like:

Boil kits in 3Lwater to sterilise
Add to Fermenter
Add tap temp water to 15L
Add chilledwater to 23L
Make yeast starter and pitch at 22deg
Primary Fermenter 4 days
Secondary Fermenter 3 Days
Keg and enjoy

I would like to lager this batch and just need some clarification for lagering. Is the yeast pitched andfermented at say 12deg over 2 weeks, then secondary ferment at say 8 deg for another 2 - 3 weeks (as a ballpark figure)? Or, pitch and primary ferment at 22deg and secondary ferment at 12deg.

Also, being a hot day yesterday the wort temp didnt get down until today after I put it in thefermeting fridge, but I already had the yeast started. It has been sitting in a sterilised glass with glad wrap pulled tightly over the top and the yeast has settled on the bottom.Would it still be ok if I put it into another sterilised glass with some boiled DLME to kick start it or should I just start another? Everything has been fastidiously cleaned and sterilised.

Thanks in advance,

Sully

 

[wambesi]

Hi Sully,

I don't do many lagers myself but I'll comment on a few things:

1. There is not need to boil the kits and you shouldn't do it as it will drive away the hop aromas and flavours that are in the kit. Plain extract you can boil but not the flavoured kits, how long did you boil for? It will also darken the extracts by boiling them.

2. A yeast starter, with the dried yeast there is no real need to make a starter, I'm assuming you mean re-hydrated it? If so thats a good idea about 20mins or so before you pitch.

3. Racking into a secondary is one of those things, some brewers do and some don't. I myself don't and haven't when done lagers before. Also your timings are very short for a lager, lagers are normally fermented at about 11deg and can take up to four weeks or more to ferment out.

When pitching to mine I did it at 11deg but used to sachets of the saflager as recommended by the manufacturer.
Lagering is another issue I have never done, I'm pretty sure I saw a recent thread on it somewhere.

Good luck and welcome back to the hobby!

 

[Sully]

Thanks for the reply wambesi.

Like I said I am a bit rusty...

I only bring the kits just to the boil then switch off the heat. It was something an old brewer got me onto and just been doing it since. Hisreasoning was forsanitising andcaramelising the malt a bit andbringing out the hop flavours a tadmore. Personally, Ican'tremember if I noticed any difference or not, killed quite afew braincells over the years.

Re-hydrate the yeast - thats what I meant ..... Yeah, 20 mins beforehand is what I normally do. It was just this batch took along time to cool down than anticipated. I have ditched the first rehydrated yeast and startedfresh.

I always racked since I started kegging, just the way I was shown when I bought my first kegging kit. I am a "Do it the way Iwas shown, until either someone shows me a better way or Ican come up with a betterway" kind of person, andfrankly havent tried anything different because I am happy with theresults sofar. BUT, there is always room for improvement.

Oh well, the brew is now sitting in a MM controlled fridge at12deg, pitched the yeast this morning so lets see what happens.

Cheers again.

Sully

 

[Bribie G]

If I remember Saflager s-23 (from Fermentis) says on the packet to just sprinkle over the wort. I have made a couple of 'toucans' lately, a Coopers double stout and a Coopers double lager and they have both frothed out through the airlock horrendously so it sounds like you are doing the right thing by fermenting in a fridge which should calm down any runaway fermentation.

When using Saflagers I have always racked to secondary after about a week then let it sit in the fridge for about a week then cleared out with Polyclar to remove any chill haze and bottled after another three days.

If you transfer the beer to secondary too soon and put in cold storage there is a risk that you are not giving the brew a 'diacetyl rest' and can end up with too much diacetyl (butterscotch flavour). Diacetyl is a by product that the yeast cleans up at the end of the fermentation so it's a good idea to let the beer sit at 'fermentation' temperature for an extra two or three days before cranking down the temperature.

Even with a kit lager I reckon that a couple of weeks in cold storage would definitely improve it, after all that's all they give Fosters Lager / Crownies

 

[Spiderpig]

Hey guys,

I have recently ventured into Lagering using the Morgans Mexican Cervaza and I have to say the results have been fantastic. The process was simple enough, used two sachets of Saflager s-23 as per manufacturers instructions. Did primary at 12 degrees in the fridge I have adapted for Lagering. Prior to racking at 14 days, I removed the brew from the fridge and bought it up to room temp for 2 days. This ensures a d rest and ensures primary fermentation has completed before the long cold storage. (Don't want bottle bombs).

At day 14 I racked into a secondary fermenter and dry hopped some Perle Hops from the LHBS (thanks Mark). I then closed her up and put her in the fridge at normal fridge temps for over a month. Close the door and forget about her is the best way.

After the month is up, 2 days prior to bottling I raised the temp back up to room temp and then bottled. The beer was so clear when I bottled her, all mates thus far have rated this as some of the best home brew they've ever tasted. It's a great drop for the hot days of summer we have ahead. - nice subtle hint of lime in the flavour and aroma.
1 x Morgans Mexican Cervaza
1 x LHBS Malt plus pack (similar to BE#2 I think)
2 x Saflager s-23 yeast satchets
15gms Perle Hops (For dry hopping at racking stage)
Top up water to 23 litres

Cheers, Spiderpig

 

[DKS]

Hey guys,

I have recently ventured into Lagering using the Morgans Mexican Cervaza and I have to say the results have been fantastic. The process was simple enough, used two sachets of Saflager s-23 as per manufacturers instructions. Did primary at 12 degrees in the fridge I have adapted for Lagering. Prior to racking at 14 days, I removed the brew from the fridge and bought it up to room temp for 2 days. This ensures a d rest and ensures primary fermentation has completed before the long cold storage. (Don't want bottle bombs).

At day 14 I racked into a secondary fermenter and dry hopped some Perle Hops from the LHBS (thanks Mark). I then closed her up and put her in the fridge at normal fridge temps for over a month. Close the door and forget about her is the best way.

After the month is up, 2 days prior to bottling I raised the temp back up to room temp and then bottled. The beer was so clear when I bottled her, all mates thus far have rated this as some of the best home brew they've ever tasted. It's a great drop for the hot days of summer we have ahead. - nice subtle hint of lime in the flavour and aroma.
1 x Morgans Mexican Cervaza
1 x LHBS Malt plus pack (similar to BE#2 I think)
2 x Saflager s-23 yeast satchets
15gms Perle Hops (For dry hopping at racking stage)
Top up water to 23 litres

Cheers, Spiderpig

Yeh same here spiderpig had good results with this one at end of last summer done at 9 - 10 degs with S-23 and long time in secondary 4 weeks I think.
Not much flavour or body but a good one for hot weather drinking. Never tried the pearl might give it a go. Sounds like a winner. :icon_cheers:
Daz

 

[Sully]

Hi again,

Probablyjust being a tad paranoid about the brew atm, being new to lagering and all. It is sitting in a controlled fridge at 12deg. The yeast was pitched on 07/10 at 14deg, today (09/10) there is not much sign of activity, ie no krausen. The OGwas 1.053. Anotherreading was taken this morning and itwas 1.050, and a layer of trub on the bottomwhichindicates some activity has taken place,but no krausen. There hasn't been any airlock activity, which doesnt mean much anyway. I took a sip out of the test tube after the reading and there is no off tastes or smells, so thats promising.

Anotherrecent thread suggested that if pitching the yeast at 12deg use 2sachets. I only used 1 which wasrehydrated with 2/3 cup of water and 1/3 cup DLME boiled and cooled. The yeast was taken out of the fridge to bring it up to room temp before pitching.

Am I being too concerned about no krausen and the slow activity at this point, or is it just the nature of the beast with lagering?

Sorry to ask something that has probably come up a thousand times, but I need to ask myself to ease my mind.

Cheers

Sully.

PS... :icon_offtopic: Are there any homebrew clubs in the Caboolture / North Brisbane area that have regularmonthly "meetings"?

 

[wambesi]

Hey Sully,

Ok First up (and correct me if I'm wrong brewers) but you are still in the fermenting stage not lagering. Lagering refers to the cold storage of the beer after fermentation is complete.

Anyhoo, back to your main question.
The few lagers I have done were very slow to form a krausen or see any activity. The yeast work slower at colder temps so don't expect to see any big activity going on, the fact you see some signs are good. Now time will be the key.

Not pitching two packets shouldn't be detrimental, but doing two gives it the recommended amount of cells. Your brew should be good though so don't worry too much about that.

Don't worry about asking the questions mate, that's what the forum is for! As I have said before most of us have asked similar questions along the way.
Just relax and see how it goes, don't worry if it takes a few or more weeks to ferment out. My advice would be to set and forget about it.
Check the gravity in maybe a week or so and see how it goes.

Enjoy.

 

[Sully]

Thank you Wambesi, you cleared it all up for me...

Yep, I am at the fermenting stage not actucally lagering, but first time using a lager yeast the way it supposed to be used. I am not really good at explaining things sometimes, sorry abt that.

Well, I checked the fermenter this morning and it looks like it has finally kicked off because there is krausen happening... woohoo.

Now the wait begins...

I should have started on the ales first to get something in the kegs, pretty dry argument here at the moment...

how many fridges can you have without having too many?

 

[Gavo]

how many fridges can you have without having too many?

Apparently you can't have to many fridges, although I am about to have only two fridges dedicated to this hobby, one for fermenting and one for keeping the beer cold for drinking, one day I may have one for kegs .

You could always get another fermenter to start some ales while you wait for the lager.

 

[Thunderlips]

You could always get another fermenter to start some ales while you wait for the lager.

That's it.
Get a 60L and do double batches of your favourite brew

 

[wambesi]

If you dont have a second fermenter get two. Serious.
One can have an ale in it fermenting and the third can be used for bulk priming vs the priming drops or sugar - a much better way of priming.

I actually don't do many lagers (as I have stated before) as I enjoy ales much more but I will be doing a pils shortly.

Get as many fridges as you can!
Not including the household one (for those food things that we seem to need as well!) I have my fermenting fridge, a beer (and other drinks, cakes, hops and yeast) fridge and a cheese fridge for aging my cheeses and stuff.

Need another one.......

 

[Sully]

I have 4 fermenters and 2 racking bins so thats not a prob, I am just holding off until the ferment (spare) fridge is free to do another brew because of the fluxuating temps (18 -30deg) atm.... SWMBO would have a hissy fit if I got another fridge. Just got the chestfreezer setup for kegs.

It would be good to have another fridge/coldroom if we had the space, have to wait another 12 months before that happens. Just working on trying to sneak in a cellar in the house design atm. I wonder if she will notice?

Cheers

Sully

 

[wambesi]

I have 4 fermenters and 2 racking bins so thats not a prob, I am just holding off until the ferment (spare) fridge is free to do another brew because of the fluxuating temps (18 -30deg) atm.... SWMBO would have a hissy fit if I got another fridge. Just got the chestfreezer setup for kegs.

It would be good to have another fridge/coldroom if we had the space, have to wait another 12 months before that happens. Just working on trying to sneak in a cellar in the house design atm. I wonder if she will notice?

Cheers

Sully

A good reason to get at least a few ales up before attempting lagers as it takes much longer in the fridge, ales can be out in 7-14 days depending on your schedule, so you get two done in the same time you get one lager in some cases (if not even more).

The cellar is justified, tell her it will be able to also cellar her wines (if she drinks) or cheeses that you may start making in the future, creative thinking here is the key!