First ever brew, need cider advice

[indica86]

Sounds like ti is doing what it should.
Little to no foam - with beer "krausen" - on a cider is normal.
Airlock bubbling or not can indicate a leak somewhere - no issue there either.

 

[Jordansr]

Checked for leaks and couldn't find any, but I resealed the lid anyway... I'm using the "junior" airlock and a 30 litre plastic carboy fermenter if that makes any difference. Thanks for all the help

 

[Airgead]

All good. Cider often doesn't have much foam. Had to do with the lower protein content. And the different stains of yeast.

Cheers
Dave

 

[MastersBrewery]

MJ M79, ferment to 1020, crash chill, keg, carb, and serve, job done!

 

[Jordansr]

Guys, not really sure what to make of this. Was looking at the cider through the fermenter walls with a flashlight and saw this weird mass of bubbles, so I took a picture. Looks kinda similar to the foam people get on beers, but I started this on Saturday, so surely if it was the yeast it would have appeared before now? When I took the lid off to take a picture it sounded really bubbly, like a trickling stream sort of sound but I couldn't see any more bubbles / larger bubbles than usual making their way to the surface... Is this some sort of contamination or is it all good?

 

[Jordansr]

Also, when I put the lid back on I got two big bubbles through the airlock... I'm confident it wasn't due to the action of the lid screwing back down and the resulting pressure change because it happened a few seconds afterwards... But it also didn't happen again.

 

[Jordansr]

It certainly smelt like cider though.

 

[indica86]

Also, when I put the lid back on

Shouldn't take the lid off, it leaves you vulnerable to infection.
Take a sample through the tap. If it smells like cider and tastes like cider... it is fine.

 

[Grott]

Hi Jordansr. In my experience I've found cider fermentation to be slow and long. Bubbles is a good indicator everything is ok, don't worry about the airlock but you mentioned the level has moved therefore all is good.
Cheers

 

[Airgead]

Looks perfectly normal to me. Chillax...have a few brews and let it do its thing.

 

[TimT]

Resist the temptation to take off the airlock too much and fiddle to try and make things go better. You're playing the long game here. Let the yeast go through the fermentation over a few weeks. You'll be fine.

When you fiddle with an airlock you'll normally get the bubbling happen because you're altering the pressure or some shit like that. You can also get a similar effect by just giving the upper part of the fermenter a cuddle - you'll change the heat inside, making the gas expand.

 

[Jordansr]

Cheers guys. Final stages of fermenting here, SG sitting at around 1.009 so just gonna monitor it and wait until it stalls. Few final questions for next time:

Safale S-04 is a top fermenting yeast, but for the entire fermentation all of the yeast has been sitting at the bottom in a 1cm thick sediment, save for the few little clumps floating around in solution, and the day that yeasty foam appeared up top. Temperatures have actually been a bit high, sitting between 20-22C so why would it still be on the bottom?

When racking the cider, is the best result to have a crystal clear liquid, or does that not leave enough yeast in solution to bottle condition?

When I lifted the (Plastic) carboy up to move it a little, there was a ring of cider where it had been in contact with the surface it was sitting on. Is this normal, or is this + no airlock a clear indication of a leak somewhere?

To answer questions 2 and 3. Ciders tend to ferment out quite dry because of the concentration of fermented sugars in the apple juice. So in that respect it doesn't matter so much what yeast you use. Adding so much sugar that the yeast stops working before it's all fermented out is a technique in some wines, but not cider so much (it would change the quality and character of the cider too much). Good thinking though.

I have no doubt you know far more about this than I, but I'm still curious about this one; I was browsing the mead sections of the forum and noted a lot of them retain sweetness by adding too much sugar to their solutions. So why is it appropriate for wines and meads but not for ciders?

 

[fraser_john]

Has any one used the Costco Kirkland apple juice before?

Mine has turned out pretty darn good, waiting on some malo cultures to remove some of the malic acid sourness, but it has lots of good apple flavour and aroma. I was surprised to find this given the comments around making cider from juice. All I can think of is that this particular juice is made with a decent variety of apples rather than just golden delicious or some other ordinary variety?

 

[TimT]

I phrased my response badly. It should be 'concentration of fermentable sugars in the apple juice'. Personally I wouldn't add so much sugar to the cider as what you'd end up with would be a high alcohol wine with faint apple characteristics. And you shouldn't need it. There's enough flavour in traditional apple varieties to give you a well-rounded cider - and given age, it will develop sweetness anyway.

With mead, not so much a problem - because you don't actually *add* sugar to the mead. You calculate how much alcohol the yeast will tolerate, and then work out how much honey to add so that there will be a remaining honey sweetness - so what you get is *all* honey character. But again, the other vital ingredient is age. I've just finished off a bottle of my Hippocras (honey + grape juice). For a few months after it fermented it was quite dry, rather tasteless, and very disappointing. Now, strangely and wonderfully, it's developed a new sweetness, has lost its rough alcohol edge, and makes a beautiful dessert drink.

 

[TimT]

Oh - and re: this:

Safale S-04 is a top fermenting yeast, but for the entire fermentation all of the yeast has been sitting at the bottom in a 1cm thick sediment, save for the few little clumps floating around in solution, and the day that yeasty foam appeared up top. Temperatures have actually been a bit high, sitting between 20-22C so why would it still be on the bottom?

Clumps floating in the solution and yeasty foam on the first day are simply the visible signs of fermentation. That, and carbonation (rapid in the early stages, slow and lazy in the final stages). The sediment is made by yeast as it drops out of fermentation, and other solids in the solution that form or just drop out of suspension. Bear in mind that yeast is a microscopic organism and you won't always be able to see it doing its job - even if it is hard at work. The fact that the cider has dropped down to 1.009 is a good indication that the fermentation is doing its job.

Once it all calms down you'll be able to filter it off the dregs and pour something else right on top to begin another ferment

 

[Jordansr]

Cheers guys. SG looks to be holding pretty well at 1.008/1.009 so I'll wait a day or two more and then bottle up.

Once it all calms down you'll be able to filter it off the dregs and pour something else right on top to begin another ferment

So once this is done I can just dump apple juice on the stuff at the bottom and start another one? Sounds pretty efficient

 

[Jordansr]

SG dropped all the way to 1.000 in the end. Just bottled them all, thinking I would be happier calling what is in the bottles a learning experience than I would cider at this point. Temp was too high for the most part, think I may have left it too long on the yeast because it ended up with a vegemite-ey flavor (Results of autolysis?). How much capacity for improvement does cider have once bottled?

Also, got the brewing accessories and other loose equipment in the ferment vessel soaking in a lo-suds solution at the moment. Is this the right thing to do?

Thanks