First Ag....what To Do?

[Brizbrew]

I have almost completed my AG setup and can see me cranking it up within the next few weeks but at this stage I have no idea what I will brew.
I fancy trying an Irish red but after looking at various recipe's on the interweb it leaves me wondering how easily most of the grains could be obtained here in Brisbane, Most recipe's I have found appear to be from US brewers and have multiple types of grain some of which I am sure would be difficult/expensive to get in small quantities

What did you brew for your first AG and how did it go?

This one I pulled off the beertools site looks like a potential first go at AG with an easily obtainable grist.

5 kg. English 2-row Pale
450 g. Crystal Malt 60L
300 g. Roasted Barley
18 g. Target (Pellets, 9.2 %AA) boiled 60 min.
20 g. East Kent Goldings (Pellets, 6.6 %AA) boiled 15 min.
Yeast : White Labs WLP004 Irish Stout

 

[johnno]

What did you brew for your first AG and how did it go?

[post="70052"][/post]​

My first Ag was a 12 litre APA last december using cascade.
After that I got more equipment and was able to brew full batches. That was a Bohemian Pilsner which I am drinking now.
Both went very well. I am still on a very steep learning curve.
Johnno

 

[kungy]

My first brew was a Bitter recipe from gerard at ndbrewing.com.au

Firkin Bitter 4.7%A.B.V @ 70% 44-46 IBU

Extract Derivation Traditional Ale Malt 4.86 kg
English Crystal 170g
Torrified Wheat 170g
Roasted Barley 30g

Mash Temp 66c
Mash Stand Time 60 min

Hops
E.K. Goldings 4.52%A/A 55g (60min)
(Pellets)
E.K. Goldings 4.52%A/A 30g (20 mins)
E.K. Goldings 4.52%A/A 15g (5 mins)

With WLP005 from gerards brewery

The mash was good, good sparge and hit everything without to much trouble. Got 76% efficency first go to boot. Bottled last weekend and tasting pretty good with some nuttiness and bitterness. It was a fairly decent first brew, as the colour and relative richness was enough to hide some of the first time flaws i think. I would have gone with a stout for a first go but i hate stouts.

Just remember be patient, plan well and that its not that hard in hindsight. Have fun!

Will

 

[Bilph]

Very much like johnno.
I just went as simple possible.
A half batch APA which was just Aussie Pale malt and liberal doses of Amarillo.
Very, very happy with it and its younger siblings.
Consequently, I'm eyeing off bigger brewing equipment every day.
Soon, soon.

 

[Linz]

Briz,

My first was a stout....

for an irish red go to beertools and search for "raydownunder"(thanks Ray Mills!!). Homebrewworld brewed it and reckons its a cracker, with the irish ale yeast

for a 22lt brew


5.0 kg. English 2-row Pale info
.45 kg. Crystal Malt 60L info
.03 kg. Roasted Barley info
18 g. Target (Pellets, 9.2 %AA) boiled 60 min. info
20 g. East Kent Goldings (Pellets, 6.6 %AA) boiled 15 min. info
Yeast : White Labs WLP004 Irish Stout

 

[sintax69]

My first was a pilsner 4.5kg pil malt 200 grams wheat and saaz hop at 60 30 10 just keep it simple for the first few you got so much to work out, losses in system, Gravitys and the entire procedure dont freak at missing values my first was about 50% eff and 18ltrs missed OG by 10 points but it is still a nice brew and still getting better
Go for mid to hi gravitys so when you miss you still make a decent brew and KEEP NOTES on every thing

 

[Brizbrew]

Briz,

My first was a stout....

for an irish red go to beertools and search for "raydownunder"(thanks Ray Mills!!). Homebrewworld brewed it and reckons its a cracker, with the irish ale yeast

for a 22lt brew


5.0 kg. English 2-row Pale info
.45 kg. Crystal Malt 60L info
.03 kg. Roasted Barley info
18 g. Target (Pellets, 9.2 %AA) boiled 60 min. info
20 g. East Kent Goldings (Pellets, 6.6 %AA) boiled 15 min. info
Yeast : White Labs WLP004 Irish Stout

[post="70061"][/post]​

Great minds must think alike because that is the recipe I found on my searches and have decided to have a go it for my first effort.

I know that first time around all will not go to plan I will have enough to worry about but I have downloaded promash and tried inputing this recipe (Start as you mean to go on) but it is mighty confusing and tells me I wiull have a wort with an OG of 0.001 :lol: Even I would not drink that piss!

Is there somewhere that I can get a user friendly guide to promash?

 

[nonicman]

Briz have you tried loading one of the sample recipes that comes with promash, and edit the recipe with what you want to brew, also download and import the Maltcraft grain specs (found at the Promash site?) so you get the specs for the grains that are available. I'm guessing that your volumes are a bit out to get such a low gravity.

Edit and the help section is good in Promash.

 

[pint of lager]

I suggest you go with a pale ale recipe to start off with.

If you miss your og, it will still end up being a drinkable brew, be it a lower og mild, or a higher og pale ale.

Stouts and APA's with their strong flavours, tend to mask any faults that may arise, and are not good at showcasing the full flavours of an ag.

Do a simple recipe. The word simple is a bit misleading, as many recipes are relatively uncomplicated but turn out superb beers. It is the craft of brewing that plays a large part in the end result. For example, a pilsner could be 100% pils grain, and all saaz, which I will be brewing next week. Ag brew number 85. Another simple recipe, 95% ale malt, 5% crystal and fuggles for bitter, flavour and aroma, og 1.045. Easy, simple and very very drinkable and will showcase all the wonderful flavours that you will never get out of a tin.

If you have never used liquid yeasts, do not start using them on your first ag, stick to a quality dried yeast like the saf range. Using liquid yeasts adds an extra layer of uncertainty.

Single infusion mash, with plenty of boiling water on hand to add to the mash tun. After adding any water to change the temp, stir well, wait a few minutes, then take another reading.


If you are uncertain, do some mini mashes first to get a feel for your setup.

Don't forget, there is often someone in the chatroom, introduce yourself, hang around in the room for a few days prior, let the regulars know that you are mashing for the first time, and if anyone is available, they will keep an eye on the room.

 

[mobrien]

I am at the stage of doing my first AG also - I'm going to do a wit tomorrow, using one of the recipes that came with (at least I think it came with it!) beersmith:

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Wit
Brewer: Brad Smith
Asst Brewer:
Style: Witbier
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (47.0) Great tasting Wit! A summer favorite! Lacy white head that lasts and lasts. Distinctive, light wheat beer with a hint of spice.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 19.68 L
Boil Size: 23.57 L
Estimated OG: 1.047 SG
Estimated Color: 7.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 18.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
2.04 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (6.3 EBC) Grain 50.0 %
2.04 kg Wheat, Flaked (3.2 EBC) Grain 50.0 %
28.35 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (60 min) Hops 18.3 IBU
0.75 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.75 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Belgian Wit Ale (White Labs #WLP400) Yeast-Wheat


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 4.08 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 10.65 L of water at 74.4 C 67.8 C 60 min
Mash Out Add 5.96 L of water at 91.5 C 75.6 C 10 min

Matt

 

[Jye]

Hey Brizbrew,

I'm at about the same stage as you with my ag setup, just have to finish the kettle and buy a burner...thats the part I'm looking forward to Aiming for the holiday on the 17th for my first run.

I have been thinking of doing a recipe similar to what PoL mentioned, an APA with 100% pale grain and cascade. Just cant wait for the day to come :super:

 

[pint of lager]

Mashes containing high quantities of malted wheat are notorious for sticking. Very very messy and hard on the beginner. Wheat grain has no husk and does not form a filter bed like barley grain does.

Even flaked wheat.

With that quanitiy of adjuncts as flakes, your mash will not have enough grain hulls to form the filter bed when sparging. It will clog, runoff will stop. You will stir, runoff, stir, runoff, and end up with a starch laden brew that will be hazey, taste very grainy and will not keep well.

Do yourself a favour, make your first ag a pale ale.

After a few mashes, get some rice hulls, then attempt your wit.

 

[mobrien]

The only problem for me is I already have the grain and its crushed.... don't want to leave it as I assume it will go stale?

I was planning on picking up some rice hulls tonight to add to it, so I guess that is a good idea!

Jump in the deep end I say

Matt

 

[Plastic Man]

Palmers How to Brew has a simple PA recipe. And soem great instructions / advice.

www.howtobrew.com.

Maybe worth a try for first AG

 

[johnno]

What did you brew for your first AG and how did it go?

[post="70052"][/post]​

My first Ag was a 12 litre APA last december using cascade.
After that I got more equipment and was able to brew full batches. That was a Bohemian Pilsner which I am drinking now.
Both went very well. I am still on a very steep learning curve.
Johnno

[post="70054"][/post]​

Just checked beersmith and my Pils being my first full size AG was down in volume by about 5 litres. This being on account of my evaporation rate being around 18-20% as opposed to the 10% I had set it at. Still a very drinkable beer though. I remember it being way to bitter but that has settled fine now.
You brew and learn.

johnno

 

[pint of lager]

Mobrien, the other big problem with your brew, is that there will not be enough enzymes to do the mashing.

Mashing is where enzymes convert the starch in the grain to shorter molecules, which are sacharides, or malt sugars such as maltiose, triose etc.

Enzymes come from malted grain.

Your recipe only has 50% malted grain, a big ask for the enzymes in the malted pale ale to convert double the weight of plain starch adjuncts (your flaked wheat.)

Usually, adjuncts such as flaked wheat only make up 10% of the total grist, not 50%.

Jumping in the deep end? You are going to be jumping into a batch of glue.

No amount of rice hulls will save your brew.

Save your flaked wheat for another brew, it won't go off. Or, if the whole lot is mixed up together, save the lot for a fortnight, store it somewhere cool, in a sealed bag. Add some more pale ale malt. Or, divide the mix ito a few brews, always keeping the adjunc ratio to 10% of the total grist.

Do yourself a favour, do a pale ale.

 

[Borret]

Mobrien, the other big problem with your brew, is that there will not be enough enzymes to do the mashing.

Mashing is where enzymes convert the starch in the grain to shorter molecules, which are sacharides, or malt sugars such as maltiose, triose etc.

Enzymes come from malted grain.

Your recipe only has 50% malted grain, a big ask for the enzymes in the malted pale ale to convert double the weight of plain starch adjuncts (your flaked wheat.)

Usually, adjuncts such as flaked wheat only make up 10% of the total grist, not 50%.

Jumping in the deep end? You are going to be jumping into a batch of glue.

No amount of rice hulls will save your brew.

Save your flaked wheat for another brew, it won't go off. Or, if the whole lot is mixed up together, save the lot for a fortnight, store it somewhere cool, in a sealed bag. Add some more pale ale malt. Or, divide the mix ito a few brews, always keeping the adjunc ratio to 10% of the total grist.

Do yourself a favour, do a pale ale.

[post="70176"][/post]​

POL,

I too have had some 'fun' experience with too much adjunct in a mash although only at a partial mash level. However the belgians do it so it is possible. The article you presented last week on citrus in beers also had a belgian wits article attached to it which specifies (as most wits do) the use of 50% unmalted grains. However it does advocate the use of a protein rest to reduce the glue that you mentioned. So I must agree with your point of it being tricky as a first all-grain batch, but it is not something that I would say is impossible. It really comes back to how adventurous (read 'foolish') you want to be and how steep (read 'vertical')a learning curve you are trying to create for yourself.
Again Your advice is good as always and it should probably be a road travelled a little further down the track, but it is possible.

My 2c

Borret :blink:

 

[Brizbrew]

Ok a pale ale it is then :super:

I just want to crank the system up and in my newbieness got a bit carried away with thinking I was John Palmer or some other brewer magnifique!

Any tips on a good IPA floating about out there?

 

[Doc]

Brizbrew,

Are you talking ipa or IPA ?
A nice easy drinking session beer of a pale ale or a nice hoppy aromatic IPA ?
For the later do a search for Jayse's Skunk Fart Pale ale, or give my one a go which is a cross between Jayes's and CJ in J's Hourglass IPA.

Doc's Hourglass IPA III

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

06-A American Pale Ales, American Pale Ale

Min OG: 1.045 Max OG: 1.056
Min IBU: 20 Max IBU: 40
Min Clr: 8 Max Clr: 22 Color in EBC

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 40.00 Wort Size (L): 40.00
Total Grain (kg): 9.25
Anticipated OG: 1.058 Plato: 14.30
Anticipated EBC: 24.5
Anticipated IBU: 58.4
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 10.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 47.06 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.049 SG 12.24 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
77.8 7.20 kg. JWM Traditional Ale Malt Australia 1.038 7
5.0 0.46 kg. JWM Light Munich Australia 1.038 20
4.3 0.40 kg. Weyermann CaraWheat Germany 1.037 120
3.7 0.34 kg. TF Crystal Rye UK 1.031 210
3.2 0.30 kg. Weyermann Melanoidin Germany 1.037 70
2.5 0.23 kg. JWM Wheat Malt Australia 1.040 4
1.7 0.16 kg. JWM Caramalt Australia 1.036 56
1.7 0.16 kg. Hoepfner Caramel Malt Pils Germany 1.036 3

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
22.00 g. Northern Brewer Pellet 10.00 19.1 90 min.
20.00 g. Cascade Pellet 5.40 7.6 45 min.
10.00 g. Amarillo Gold Pellet 7.10 5.0 45 min.
20.00 g. Cascade Pellet 5.40 4.4 30 min.
10.00 g. Amarillo Gold Pellet 7.10 2.9 30 min.
20.00 g. Cascade Pellet 5.40 3.4 25 min.
10.00 g. Amarillo Gold Pellet 7.10 2.3 25 min.
20.00 g. Cascade Pellet 5.40 2.9 20 min.
10.00 g. Amarillo Gold Pellet 7.10 1.9 20 min.
20.00 g. Cascade Pellet 5.40 2.3 15 min.
10.00 g. Amarillo Gold Pellet 7.10 1.5 15 min.
20.00 g. Cascade Pellet 5.40 1.7 10 min.
10.00 g. Amarillo Gold Pellet 7.10 1.1 10 min.
20.00 g. Cascade Pellet 5.40 1.4 5 min.
10.00 g. Amarillo Gold Pellet 7.10 0.9 5 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.35 Tsp Irish Moss Fining 15 Min.(boil)


Yeast
-----

WYeast 1026 British Cask Ale


Water Profile
-------------

Profile:
Profile known for:

Calcium(Ca): 0.0 ppm
Magnesium(Mg): 0.0 ppm
Sodium(Na): 0.0 ppm
Sulfate(SO4): 0.0 ppm
Chloride(Cl): 0.0 ppm
biCarbonate(HCO3): 0.0 ppm

pH: 0.00


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Single Step

Grain kg: 9.25
Water Qts: 29.58 - Before Additional Infusions
Water L: 27.99 - Before Additional Infusions

L Water Per kg Grain: 3.03 - Before Additional Infusions

Saccharification Rest Temp : 67 Time: 90
Mash-out Rest Temp : 72 Time: 10
Sparge Temp : 80 Time: 60


Total Mash Volume L: 34.17 - Dough-In Infusion Only

All temperature measurements are degrees Celsius.



Notes
-----

This time using Northern Brewer for the bittering over Simcoe last time. Th
e first version was a great beer but there was a grapefruit taste to it. No
t unpleastant but trying to avoid it this time. Also using WLP051 this time
after using WLP001 on version 1.

v3. This time staying with the NB for bittering. Will split the batch between WLP051 and Wyeast Cask Ale 026 to compare.

Beers,
Doc

 

[pint of lager]

Settle Brizbrew, that is a pale ale, not an India pale ale.

Pale ale, og 1.040-1.050
IBU, 22-28

IPA's are much hoppier and higher og. That means more grain, bigger sparge etc.

A pale ale is a really nice brew. Much easier to sort out your setup, strike temps, sparging on an easy brew, not a hard one. Once you get a few brews through your system, then launch into the brews of your dreams. Plenty of time.