First Ag - A Bit Of A Disappointment

[Goofinder]

Well, I've just cracked open my first bottle of AG brewed beer - a SNPA clone.

It's flat, murky and tastes like butterscotch.

9 days in the bottle so far, so I was probably being a bit optimistic in opening it up now but still the butterscotch isn't too good.

From doing a bit of reading, it looks like the lag time before fermentation/lack of aeration might be the culprit there. I pitched a sachet of US-05 once the wort had cooled to about 22 deg but after 24 hours there was no signs of fermentation. So I gave it a bit of a whirl with a (sanitised) whisk and threw in another pack and it was off after that.

I've also read that giving the bottles a shake might help to get the yeast to clean up some of the diacetyl -- should I do this? I've had the butterscotch flavour once before with a K&K beer that went away after a while but if this can speed up the process...

As for the murkiness, everything from the kettle went into the fermenter and it was 'no-chilled' in there overnight. Does that sound like the sort of thing that could cause this? I've got a Beerbelly hopscreen on order to try and keep the trub out in future. Any other tips would be appreciated.

Ahh well, at least I've got plenty of reasonable extract beers to keep me going for a while.

 

[Adamt]

I'll bet your bollocks to a barndance the diacetyl was from the lack of aeration. The murkiness may just be temporary, hard to tell being so young in the bottle.

As for fixing the diacetyl, give it some more time too. Looks like you need to brew again!

 

[Thirsty Boy]

maybe - and I'm just guessing..

your bottles are in the middle of their bottle fermentation. The yeast are still in suspension and they are in that phase of the cycle, where they have produced but not yet re-absorbed the diacetyl.

Kind of like trying to tap a drinkable sample out of the fermentor three quarters of the way through.

Give em a few weeks in the bottle as Adamt suggests. What you describe, seem to be issues related to fermentation not the wort production process.. so AG shouldn't really have made all that much difference.

But like I said.... just guesses

Thirsty

 

[datman510]

so how does one aerate there wort correctly?

 

[Thirsty Boy]

There are lots of different ways larry66

I use an aquarium air pump which pushes air through a sterile filter and then a stainless diffusion stone - I run it for at least 20mins.

Other people use pure oxygen through a diffusion stone - only a couple of minutes

Some people shake the hell out of their fermentor

Some people pour the wort into the fermentor really roughly and then beat it up with a spoon or whisk

I've seen guys with paint mixers on electric drill whipping the wort up

In most cases - anything short of a diffusion stone and an air pump, is going to leave you short of the theoretical optimum levels of oxygen - unless you are prepared to do a hell of a lot of fermentor shaking at any rate.

Practically - guys who just splash the wort around a lot are making pretty decent damn beer... so unless you are an "I want the best possible solution" freak like me, then shaking the fermentor or whatever is good enough. If you start hitting fermentation problems though, then aeration might be a place to look if you are using a less "optimum" technique.

Thirsty

 

[Goofinder]

Cheers guys, will give them another couple of weeks. I reckon the lack of aeration was the main problem and is relatively easily fixed - I can live with murky beer but can't really drink too much butterscotch.

 

[Goofinder]

maybe - and I'm just guessing..

your bottles are in the middle of their bottle fermentation. The yeast are still in suspension and they are in that phase of the cycle, where they have produced but not yet re-absorbed the diacetyl.

Actually, I reckon you might be right here. I just poured the yeast back into another clear beer and it looks pretty similar to the murkiness I was seeing.

I'm used to having a try at about a week in the bottle and them being a bit flat but OK, then alright after a couple of weeks. But I guess it's still not that warm this time of year yet so they will likely take a bit longer to carb up fully and clear out.

 

[Osangar]

When I was brewing kit and kilo, and the same now that I brew all grain, the beer takes a good month in the bottle to fully carbonate and be ready to drink. When I try the beers at 10 days, they have a few tastes that disappear after a month

 

[braufrau]

There is a basicbrewing podcast where I guy explained his measurements of different methods of aeration. he found rocking the fermenter the most effective. You can see his results here
linky

scroll down to the 2nd last page to see a graph of the results.

 

[trevc]

Thanks for the link braufrau, surprising results.

I'm a fermenter shaker here, and was considering getting a cheap pump/filter/airstone. Definitely won't now!

 

[Cocko]

I use a big ladle.

Push it straight down and it aerates on the way in and the just scoop some out and pour it back.... yet to see an issue!

Back OT:

In my very, very, very limited knowledge... 9 days!! Come on give the brew a chance...

I hope it works out for GF and as said, time to brew again! If at first you don't succeed and so on....
:icon_cheers:

The cockster!

 

[reg]

I am not an expert by any stetch of the imagination but 9 days this time of year is just not long enough.
Also what about the water quality in adelaide, does that play a part????

Just playing devils advocate!!!!!!!

 

[katzke]

so how does one aerate there wort correctly?

Well if you are going to continue with NoChill get some cubes. Then when you are ready to ferment pour, use a hose, or how ever you choose to fill the fermentor. Let the wort splash around well and that will take care of your aeration needs. It will also give the yeast a good stir as I add my yeast first and dump the wort on top. No need to worry about doing crazy with aerating good dry yeast. From what I have read it does not hurt but the yeast is prepared different and it is not as critical as with liquid yeast or yeast starters.

I do not think you said or anyone asked. How long was this in the fermentor? It seems like a lot of K&K brewers follow the directions on the can and ferment for a week or 2 and bottle.

 

[wambesi]

Well if you are going to continue with NoChill get some cubes. Then when you are ready to ferment pour, use a hose, or how ever you choose to fill the fermentor. Let the wort splash around well and that will take care of your aeration needs. It will also give the yeast a good stir as I add my yeast first and dump the wort on top. No need to worry about doing crazy with aerating good dry yeast. From what I have read it does not hurt but the yeast is prepared different and it is not as critical as with liquid yeast or yeast starters.

I do not think you said or anyone asked. How long was this in the fermentor? It seems like a lot of K&K brewers follow the directions on the can and ferment for a week or 2 and bottle.

This is pretty much how I do it too, I syphon straight from my NC cube and leave the hose just under the top rim of the fermenter, there it splashes like crazy getting in and (hopefully) has aerated enough, I don't seem to have had a problem yet.
A nice huge foam from splashing around appears then I had my liquid or rehydrated dry yeast into it seal and there you go.

 

[Goofinder]

Well the second batch was well aerated due to having to go through a strainer to keep the hops out of the fermenter. It also had a 1.5L starter and took off really quickly. Sounds like next time I'll be chilling via a cube and pouring in to aerate.

 

[buttersd70]

I'll bet your bollocks to a barndance the diacetyl was from the lack of aeration.

Thanks for the mental image, adam. :lol:
Personally, I think its a combo of lack of aeration, and tertiary not being complete, so give it time. If you want to rouse the yeast in the bottles to speed it on its way, all well and good. If not, give it more time.

 

[warra48]

I just bottled an English Brown Ale today, after 16 days in the fermenter.
I used a dry sachet of Nottingham yeast. By way of an experiment I decided to drain the kettle without splashing and not to aerate the wort at all, and dry ptiched the yeast by sprinkling on top of the wort in the fermenter.
OG was 1053, FG 1012.
If you used a dry US05 yeast, then I seriously doubt it was a lack of aeration causing your concerns. There are many who claim you do not need to aerate for dry yeast. Of course, you do need to aerate for liquid yeasts.
The advice from Thirsty Boy and Osanger seems sound to me.

 

[Osangar]

I did not realise there was a difference between dry and liquid, or starter yeast when it comes to aeration.

I shook all of my fermentors like a british baby sitter, until a few months ago when I bought a air pump for $10 and an air stone. I am still sceptical of the pump, so give it a shake as well.

My grandad brewed stout for years using kits and when I asked a few years back how do you aerate this stuff he looked at me all strange. hrmm.

 

[dr K]

I did not realise there was a difference between dry and liquid, or starter yeast when it comes to aeration.

Nor did I....ideas??

 

[Osangar]

not me, I an not sure why there would be a difference.

Perhaps its not the yeast type but the wort it goes into ? I guess, I am drawing a very long bow, but most kit users will use dry yeast.

Reading the different posts, boiling seems to have the effect of draining wort of the oxygen for yeast to live on. Perhaps because there is less boiling for kits than grain, they would not be as susceptible to low oxygen.