Fermentation Has Not Begun. What Should I Do?

[atkinsonr]

Hi all.
My fermentation doesn't seem to have begun and I'm looking for advice. Here's what I did:

Monday
--------
On Monday I brewed my first BIAB using my new 50L kettle from Beerbelly. I heated 36L of water to 78C and pitched about 5.5kg of grain into the grain bag.

Unfortunately the grain didn't cool the hot water nearly enough, and when things settled down I was still at 76C.

After 15 minutes of frantic wafting and stirring, the temp eventually came down to 67. Fearing that I'd denatured the enzymes, I went back to the computer and reformulated the recipe for an additional 1.2 KG of base malt, which I immediately added to the grain bag.

I figured this addition would ensure some enzymes are available for the conversion.

I mashed for 60 minutes from the second grain addition, and held 67C without any intervention.

The rest of the brew day was uneventful and I finished up with 20L of great looking / smelling wort which I no-chilled.

Thursday
----------
By Thursday the wort had no-chilled itself down to pitching temp, so in the morning I put the cube into my fermentation fridge to bring it down to 18.5C.

In the evening, after work, I took a Wyeast 1275 (Thames Ale) from my fridge, warmed it in my hands and then smacked it.

After about 3-4 hours the smackpack had puffed a little, but it was late in the evening so I decided to pitch.

I sanitised a fermenter, and carefully but vigourously poured the wort from the cube into the fermenter. This is my first no-chill and I figured that the wort looked plenty aerated with a good 8 inches of foam on the top.

I took an OG, 1057, which hit the recipe on the nail.

I pitched the (partially swelled) Wyeast 1275, and went to bed.

Sunday (3 days after pitching)
--------
Had a look in the brew fridge this morning and all is not good. There is a small (about 1cm) yeast cake on the bottom of the fermenter, but no visible signs of fermentation on the top. No Krausen and no signs that yeast have sniffed the surface of this wort. (I use gladwrap rather than a lid, so it's easy to see)

It looks like the yeast have multiplied since pitching, but they have decided to sleep rather than chomp sugars.

Gravity is still 1057 which confirms that no alcohol has been produced.

Analysis
---------
I'm a bit puzzled. Dispite the mix up at mashing time, I would have thought that even if I totally ballsed up the mash, there would be some sugars for the yeast to get into.

Having read a few threads on this forum since, I'm now kicking myself for not making a starter.

The fact that the yeast have indeed multiplied (and then floculated) indicates to me that they are viable. However - clearly I don't know enough to know what to do next!

I do have some other yeast at home which I could use to do a repitch, but only S04 might be useful.

Please advise!@!!!

Thank you!

 

[Screwtop]

Hi all.
My fermentation doesn't seem to have begun and I'm looking for advice. Here's what I did:

Monday
--------
On Monday I brewed my first BIAB using my new 50L kettle from Beerbelly. I heated 36L of water to 78C and pitched about 5.5kg of grain into the grain bag.

Unfortunately the grain didn't cool the hot water nearly enough, and when things settled down I was still at 76C.

After 15 minutes of frantic wafting and stirring, the temp eventually came down to 67. Fearing that I'd denatured the enzymes, I went back to the computer and reformulated the recipe for an additional 1.2 KG of base malt, which I immediately added to the grain bag.

I figured this addition would ensure some enzymes are available for the conversion.

I mashed for 60 minutes from the second grain addition, and held 67C without any intervention.

The rest of the brew day was uneventful and I finished up with 20L of great looking / smelling wort which I no-chilled.

Thursday
----------
By Thursday the wort had no-chilled itself down to pitching temp, so in the morning I put the cube into my fermentation fridge to bring it down to 18.5C.

In the evening, after work, I took a Wyeast 1275 (Thames Ale) from my fridge, warmed it in my hands and then smacked it.

After about 3-4 hours the smackpack had puffed a little, but it was late in the evening so I decided to pitch.

I sanitised a fermenter, and carefully but vigourously poured the wort from the cube into the fermenter. This is my first no-chill and I figured that the wort looked plenty aerated with a good 8 inches of foam on the top.

I took an OG, 1057, which hit the recipe on the nail.

I pitched the (partially swelled) Wyeast 1275, and went to bed.

Sunday (3 days after pitching)
--------
Had a look in the brew fridge this morning and all is not good. There is a small (about 1cm) yeast cake on the bottom of the fermenter, but no visible signs of fermentation on the top. No Krausen and no signs that yeast have sniffed the surface of this wort. (I use gladwrap rather than a lid, so it's easy to see)

It looks like the yeast have multiplied since pitching, but they have decided to sleep rather than chomp sugars.

Gravity is still 1057 which confirms that no alcohol has been produced.

Analysis
---------
I'm a bit puzzled. Dispite the mix up at mashing time, I would have thought that even if I totally ballsed up the mash, there would be some sugars for the yeast to get into.

Having read a few threads on this forum since, I'm now kicking myself for not making a starter.

The fact that the yeast have indeed multiplied (and then floculated) indicates to me that they are viable. However - clearly I don't know enough to know what to do next!

I do have some other yeast at home which I could use to do a repitch, but only S04 might be useful.

Please advise!@!!!

Thank you!

Can't imagine there being 1cm of yeastcake on the bottom without there having been some yeast growth. Take another gravity sample to be sure, can you smell Co2 in the fermenter. What temp is the beer? Has it gotten cold at some point and the yeast have dropped out.

Most peculiar

Screwy

 

[Franko]

+1 Screwy

Are you sure thats not trub in the bottom of your fermenter.
For yeast to have multiplied to that extent they would have to eat sugars in your wort.

Have you checked your hydrometer?

I would personally pull it out of your fermentation fridge to up the temp and give it a little stir with a sterilized spoon to help the yeast along.

Franko

 

[atkinsonr]

Hi Screwy.
Yes it looks to me like there has definitely been some yeast growth. Temp has been under control at 18.5, wouldn't have been any lower than 18.3.

Just took another gravity reading, 1057. There is no condensation on the gladwrap and no sign of CO2 that I can tell of.

I'm a bit stumped, considering making a starter with the S04.

 

[Screwtop]

Hi Screwy.
Yes it looks to me like there has definitely been some yeast growth. Temp has been under control at 18.5, wouldn't have been any lower than 18.3.

Just took another gravity reading, 1057. There is no condensation on the gladwrap and no sign of CO2 that I can tell of.

I'm a bit stumped, considering making a starter with the S04.

If you're going to use 04 simply rehydrate and pour it in, use 2 packs and all will be over in 3 days. If your sure the yeast has been stored well and it's within best-by then just sprinkle on top. Would try as Franko suggests first, get that sucker up to 20C or so.

Screwy

 

[atkinsonr]

+1 Screwy

Are you sure thats not trub in the bottom of your fermenter.
For yeast to have multiplied to that extent they would have to eat sugars in your wort.

Have you checked your hydrometer?

I would personally pull it out of your fermentation fridge to up the temp and give it a little stir with a sterilized spoon to help the yeast along.

Franko

Good point Franko it could well be trub. There wasn't any yeast in the tap when I did a gravity reading this morning. I'm pretty sure the hydrometer is fine, not really a lot than can go wrong with it?

Have taken your advice. Now the fermenter is out of the fridge and in room temp (25). Will leave it until this afternoon and then give it a stir.

Wish I'd done a yeast starter, but I've never had a problem with a smackpack before.

Thanks.

 

[atkinsonr]

If you're going to use 04 simply rehydrate and pour it in, use 2 packs and all will be over in 3 days. If your sure the yeast has been stored well and it's within best-by then just sprinkle on top. Would try as Franko suggests first, get that sucker up to 20C or so.

Screwy

I've got two packets, so will do. It's been in the pantry (Only just realised that dry yeast should be stored in the fridge too!). Both packets are god until 09/2009.

Will allow to warm up for a few hours, then I'll give it a stir and pop it back in the fridge at 20C.

If no movement by Monday night I'll probably pitch the S04.

Thanks for the advice fellas.

 

[wambesi]

Good point Franko it could well be trub. There wasn't any yeast in the tap when I did a gravity reading this morning. I'm pretty sure the hydrometer is fine, not really a lot than can go wrong with it?

Thanks.

Test the hydrometer in plain water, should be a zero reading.
Sometimes they can be way off, but it doesn't sound like thats the problem here, but thought I'd pass on the info.

Best of luck.

 

[Steve]

Yes it looks to me like there has definitely been some yeast growth.

What are you seeing to make you say this?
Cheers
Steve

 

[atkinsonr]

What are you seeing to make you say this?
Cheers
Steve

A layer of what looks like a yeast cake on the bottom of the fermenter. Although, as Franky points out - this could be trub.

Cheers

 

[Steve]

A layer of what looks like a yeast cake on the bottom of the fermenter. Although, as Franky points out - this could be trub.

Cheers

...so absolutely nothing on top?

 

[atkinsonr]

...so absolutely nothing on top?

Not a thing. Not even remnants of anything.

 

[Jakechan]

Not a thing. Not even remnants of anything.

I just kegged a brew that fermented pretty quick, and after 3 days from pitching although there were obvious krausen stains around the top the actual surface of the beer was pretty much clear of anything.

Mind you, the SG came right down too, so your problem sounds like your yeast just didnt work.

Cheers,
Jake

 

[Steve]

Not a thing. Not even remnants of anything.

SO4 it is then for you. Tis a tad strange though having the yeast cake in the bottom and nothing on top
Cheers
Steve

 

[smudge]

Hi Richy,

It's a shame that many knowledgeable brewers here will have seen the title, thought it was the "same old" and passed.

Our growth as brewers is determined by how we react to the unexpected and your thought process re enzyme
denaturing and extra malt addition was very good thinking even if it wasn't going to be a problem.

One big caveat - I don't BIAB - but some comments all the same.

With the much higher water:grain ratio of the mash compared with "normal" mashing and then a much higher mash temp
than you were aiming for, the enzymes could well have been whacked. OTOH, if you hit your gravity you must have had
conversion, albeit a much more dextrinous wort would be expected.

The addition of an extra 1.2kg of grain if it was around 25*C would only have dropped your overall temp by approx 0.5*C.
I know it was for extra enzyme activity but I would have added some cold water as well to stabilise temps.

I would be more inclined to think yeast health. Just from warming alone a smack pack will expand a little as the CO2 comes
out of solution. But you say you're fairly sure you have yeast at the bottom of the fermenter and you are probably right if
you did the normal no chill method and left the trub behind as you poured into the fermenter. Screwtop is right that if the
layer is yeast you have had yeast growth but this aerobic growth does not reduce the gravity. Not until the anaerobic phase will
you see the gravity start to drop. Also you can't smell CO2, it is odourless and colourless.

If your yeast was all but buggered and only a small amount of viable yeast made it through, it may still be slowly growing -
sort of like stepping up a slant directly into a large starter - not advisable and takes ages.

I'm rambling a bit but finding the answer to this one will make you (and all of us that follow the thread) better brewers.

I have attached a strike calculator (formula stolen from G&G's website) which shows that your initial strike water into 5.5kg
of grain should have been at 69.5*C (not 78*C) if your grain was about 25*C.

I'm going to bet that it takes off before Monday.

Cheers,
smudge

View attachment Strike_Temperature_Calculator.xls

 

[Screwtop]

Also you can't smell CO2, it is odourless and colourless.

If you believe that you may just believe in the tooth fairy :lol:

Screwy

 

[Franko]

If you believe that you may just believe in the tooth fairy :lol:

Screwy

Isnt that the truth.

 

[Frank]

Richy
I would say, don't touch your brew for another few days. As Smudge said, it will probably be cranking tomorrow or Tuesday. As he pointed out, the yeast would not have been in the best condition after a few hours of warming up before pitching. You also stated that you gave the wort a vigorous aeration, therefore adding to an extended lag time, before the yeast start working for you. Your SG was high but not excessive, so adding all these points together have ended up with stressed and under pitched yeast.
All should be good, I would say put the fermenter in your fridge and re-set at 20C.
If in doubt, put a padlock on your ferment fridge. Get the key and post it to yourself, once you get the key back in about 3 days time, have a look and your ferment will be just about complete. The more you look at the fermenter, the more your giving the yeast a complex . Leave them alone to do their work.
Post back in a few days time with the results.
Cheers :icon_cheers:

 

[atkinsonr]

Hi Richy,

It's a shame that many knowledgeable brewers here will have seen the title, thought it was the "same old" and passed.

Our growth as brewers is determined by how we react to the unexpected and your thought process re enzyme
denaturing and extra malt addition was very good thinking even if it wasn't going to be a problem.

One big caveat - I don't BIAB - but some comments all the same.

With the much higher water:grain ratio of the mash compared with "normal" mashing and then a much higher mash temp
than you were aiming for, the enzymes could well have been whacked. OTOH, if you hit your gravity you must have had
conversion, albeit a much more dextrinous wort would be expected.

The addition of an extra 1.2kg of grain if it was around 25*C would only have dropped your overall temp by approx 0.5*C.
I know it was for extra enzyme activity but I would have added some cold water as well to stabilise temps.

I would be more inclined to think yeast health. Just from warming alone a smack pack will expand a little as the CO2 comes
out of solution. But you say you're fairly sure you have yeast at the bottom of the fermenter and you are probably right if
you did the normal no chill method and left the trub behind as you poured into the fermenter. Screwtop is right that if the
layer is yeast you have had yeast growth but this aerobic growth does not reduce the gravity. Not until the anaerobic phase will
you see the gravity start to drop. Also you can't smell CO2, it is odourless and colourless.

If your yeast was all but buggered and only a small amount of viable yeast made it through, it may still be slowly growing -
sort of like stepping up a slant directly into a large starter - not advisable and takes ages.

I'm rambling a bit but finding the answer to this one will make you (and all of us that follow the thread) better brewers.

I have attached a strike calculator (formula stolen from G&G's website) which shows that your initial strike water into 5.5kg
of grain should have been at 69.5*C (not 78*C) if your grain was about 25*C.

I'm going to bet that it takes off before Monday.

Cheers,
smudge

View attachment 24435

Smudge.
I'm sure you're right about the title, and thanks very much for the comments and particularly the strike temp calc. I made a note in my brew day notes that 70C would have been more appropriate.

You are right about the unexpected providing the greatest opportunities for learning. Only I'm starting to get very slightly concerned about infection. There is already a very small oily spot on the surface of the wort. Maybe it's the beginning of Kraussen? I've stuck it back in the fridge on 20C I'm going to go for a swim now and will check it again tonight.

If there is no sign of action by the morning, then I'm definitely going to pitch 2 packets of S04. The recipe is an ESB, so at least I should end up with beer

 

[atkinsonr]

PS: (and slightly off topic) I always thought that CO2 is an odorless gas, and that the smells of fermentation are the esters and phenols produced by the little yeasties