Extract Hops In Competition Beer.

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And as others point out, detecting their use is impossible so banning or segregating beers made with them is crazy talk.
I never mentioned banning the use of liquid hops.I simply ask the questions to gauge response to the use in comps.If you dont ask you dont know the general opinon.They were questions not recomendations.I would like to make that clear.I did expect some heated debate.But thats what the forum is for.There has been some positive points made so far which I have taken onboard.Thanks.
Cheers GB
 
Chimay uses liquid hop extract. link
and Chimay is widely considered to be beer.
Whether or not their beers would win in a competition though ... :)
 
When you enter a home Brew competition you will generally be judged on the following:

Aroma
Appearance
Flavour and body
Technical Quality
Style.

So Buy adding Extract hops you can influence Aroma Flavour and Technical Quality and proably Style.So a big inpack Yes?

They sure can, but ultimately it's only the brewer's judgement that governs whether they are entering a good example of the style. If you're brewing for a competition, improving one facet of an otherwise average beer is no substitute for producing a beer that meets all components of a style guidelines. Hop extract is not going to give anyone an unfair advantage in a competition.
 
I wouldn't use for the same reasons that I don't use extract in my beers. I like doing it from as close to bas ingredients as I can. However, that does not apply to everyone as is obvious from the large number of kit brewers. Unless the competition specifically states you can't use them then it's fine as far as I am concerned. It's just like entering a kit or extract beer in a comp. It's ok but not in the Mash Paddle as that is a mash only competition.
 
They sure can, but ultimately it's only the brewer's judgement that governs whether they are entering a good example of the style. If you're brewing for a competition, improving one facet of an otherwise average beer is no substitute for producing a beer that meets all components of a style guidelines. Hop extract is not going to give anyone an unfair advantage in a competition.
Kai
Point taken.Thats what Im after.An honest opinion.Thats the point of the thread.
Cheers GB
 
Definitely just my opinion, though I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. When it comes to competitions I think there's small reason to worry about ingredients and a lot of potential difficulty in trying to do so.

When it comes down to it there's judges, a set of guidelines, a beer and may the best one win.
 
i havent entered a comp so i cant speak from experiance, but personally if i was entering in a comp I would want my beer to win based on my brewing knowledge and ability, so i would probably refrain from using hop extract because it meant my process/knowledge was deficient in the first place. that being said i dont have a problem with people using it in a comp and from using it for thier own beer consumption. If one of my brews was average and i could fix it by adding hop extract I would. as someone has quoted 'if you could only brew 1 batch imagine how good you would want it to be'. well why drink and average beer if you could make it better.

gryph i think your opinion is valid (as is everyone elses) and I can see where your coming from esp from the point about comps.
 
<br /> />When it comes down to it there's judges, a set of guidelines, a beer and may the best one win.<br />
<br /><br /><br />

And given that most judges in blind tastings can't even pick an extract beer from an AG one then what hope is there of them picking up on hop extracts?
 
<br /><br /><br />

And given that most judges in blind tastings can't even pick an extract beer from an AG one then what hope is there of them picking up on hop extracts?
Good judges and there is not a great deal will pick up a obvious inclusion.There are judges and then theres the real judges.You have to go with whats handed down on the day.One beer may get gold on the day then not even get a mention the next.
 
I think this is a very similar argument to the old chestnut of kit vs AG in a comp.

I believe that comps should be about the best beer on the day. End of story.

The questions of how it is made, what ingredients are used, how hard it was to make are completely secondary to whether it is the best beer on the day or not.

If someone chooses to hold a comp with restrictions on method (say Reinheitsgebot only, or K&K only, or AG only, whatever) then that is fine. The best beer on the day will only be as good as that particular method allows.

We choose our brewing methods and ingredients for different reasons. Some choose the most convenient method for them. Some choose the method that gives them the best beer. Some choose methods which identify with rich brewing traditions. Some choose methods with therapeutic value. Competitions should reward those who brew the best beer, not those who think their brewing method is the best.
 
Goatherder
A succinct and valuable post.
You are perfectly correct..brewing is about making good beer..end of story.
..and another thing..hops were not grown in Salem

K
 
So far I've seen a pretty civilised debate going here and that's great, while I have found brewers are more passionate about their hobby/obsession than most and often posting while enjoying their labours we can keep level heads.
I honestly believe we all have different ideas about what brewing is and I don't think there is really any right or wrong, but it is what it means to the individual that creates their outlook on what brewing should entail.
I can see exactly where GB is coming from as I share his idea of what brewing is about. Regarding competitons, Why strive for that perfect APA when I can just make a base bittered beer and hop it to perfection using an eyedropper? It does not fit in with my idea of what brewing is, can't help it, that is just me.
On the other hand I reckon using it for your beers at home, well go for it, I've nothing against it what so ever. I'm looking forward to seeing Jye come up with some Kevorkain style IVF intravienous beer line drip machine at the xmas swap :icon_cheers:

cheers

Browndog
 
1.Do you consider the use of Extract hop part of the brewing and fermentation process .

Yes, it is just like adding any other ingredient.

2.Would you use Extract hop in a Home brew competion and feel that your brewing techniques resulted in your Aroma Flavour and Technical Quality results.
Yes, if I chose to add extract over the flower/pellet/plug, and it turned out well Id be happy. However I feel better results are achieved brewing without them.

3. Have you used Extract hops in a competition beer.

No, I find them to add an artificial flavour to the beer, like in cheap kits. They are also pretty strong, so it is easy to over do it and get a nasty result. They are less forgiving than the plant.

4 .How would you feel if you were beaten by a beer that used Extract hops and you didnt.Would you consider this to indicate a true result of the judging guidlines.

Im ok with that. I think the better beers of the day often result in the winning circles. That is of course considering politics and palate damage/fatigue dont come into play.

5. Do you think Extract hops should be allowed in home brew competitions.

I think all ingredients should be available. They have their place. A lot of the BJCP recommended beers use extract. Generally if a beer is sold in clear glass it has extract hops.

6.Do you think Extract hops should be indicted on the entry form.

Only if they are asking for a recipe as part of entry criteria.

7. Do you think the use of Extract hops in home brew competitions provides a level playing field.

Yes, as a brewer you have a choice what to include in your beer

8.Would you be interested in entering a brewing competition that was based on the German purity laws.

Yes, that is how I tend to brew, but how would you police it? Youd need to rely on an honesty system.

9. Should there be a seperate section for Beer that use extract hops.

Only if you want to run your comp that way, Im not bothered by others using it.
 
8.Would you be interested in entering a brewing competition that was based on the German purity laws.

I was under the impression that the current purity law allows the use of hop extracts? I know Paulaner have used them.
 
1.Do you consider the use of Extract hop part of the brewing and fermentation process .

2.Would you use Extract hop in a Home brew competion and feel that your brewing techniques resulted in your Aroma Flavour and Technical Quality results.

3. Have you used Extract hops in a competition beer.

4 .How would you feel if you were beaten by a beer that used Extract hops and you didnt.Would you consider this to indicate a true result of the judging guidlines.

5. Do you think Extract hops should be allowed in home brew competitions.

6.Do you think Extract hops should be indicted on the entry form.

7. Do you think the use of Extract hops in home brew competitions provides a level playing field.


9. Should there be a seperate section for Beer that use extract hops.

Its a big subject which I think is going to have a big impact on Home brewing competitions.I would appreciate your points of view.

Cheers GB

In response to all of the above bullet points, I don't think it really matters. I mean you only have to look at the wine making fraternity. Wimemakers and wanna be winemakers put all sought of weird and wonderful s%%t in their wine to try and get that extra edge :blink: . Additives, finnings, oak the list can go on. You/me the consumer on most ocassions would not have a clue. Provided its all within the guidelines, and lets face it who would know somtimes, who cares.

BYB :chug:
 
I'm looking forward to seeing Jye come up with some Kevorkain style IVF intravienous beer line drip machine at the xmas swap :icon_cheers:

cheers

Browndog


Just wouldn't be the same as sucking it through his Randall would it Tony :D
 
just googled the Reinheits gebot and found this:

the short version of this law, which was enacted in1516 is that beer may only contain Barley, Hops and Water.
Fermentation happened when wild yeast made its way into the fermenter.

During the 20th century the Law underwent significant changes:
first: Yeast was allowed to the list of allowable ingredients.
second: A distinction between top and bottom fermenting yeast was made.

For bottom fermenting beers only malted ( this is sprouted ) barley is permitted,for top fermenting beers any malted grain ( such as wheat ) can be used as can sugar.
There are also a number of exceptions and variations in the law that can be applied under certain circumstances. In some cases you can manufacture a "special " beer that colours outside the line slightly as long as you clearlyindentify it as such, and of course you can put anything into your beer as long as you dont call it beer.( end part of quote)

so is liquid hops the same as a cone????

As I said before the challenge for me would be too achieve the same result using traditional methods and ingredients.
its a long journey to grow from K&K to mash brewing,many interesting discoveries along the way, learning how to appreciate different ingredients and taste, flavour etc, learning what you think is a good beer etc etc.

Its all part of the process and Yes I would like to enter a competion to brew according the Reinheits gebot.

food for thought , amita
 
I was under the impression that the current purity law allows the use of hop extracts? I know Paulaner have used them.

If it's made from 100% hops then it would be fine, just like the liquid colouring agent made from roasted malt (sinimar ???), and the chit malt (barely allowed to sprout and then dried) used to get around the no raw grain thing.

As far as liquid hops go they are fine by me. I use all sorts of weird ingredients to make gluten free beer, so my philosophy is very much along the lines of using whatever ingredients you can to achieve the desired end result of a beer with a certain flavour, aroma, colour, head retention and mouth feel.

Cheers, Andrew.
 
I would like to thank every body for putting in thier opinons.There is a lot of food for thought.I would like to organise a competition based on the purity laws .And this really means if I can actually define the criteria.So the opinons have been a great help.Its a new slant on whats available in comps now and I think It may be worth while.If you have some experience in organising a comp like this please PM me.
Cheers GB
 

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