Equipment Sizes

[komodo]

Hi everyone,

I've been reading a lot on this site and many others and in some printed literature about AG brewing as well as having brewed two extracts and attended 2 AG brew days (one at grain and grape and one at a freinds brothers place) and looking like i'll be attending another shortly.

But firstly I want to run passed you guys a few things. Im looking at producing standard 6US gallon / 23L batches.
Now two things go through my head here as I'd rather buy a good kettle first time round rather than buying a cheaper stock pot and upgrading later (been there done that in other hobbies - it costs me too much in the long run)
Part of me says to get a larger kettle for double batches as the cost isnt significantly more - the other part of me says stick with something smaller that will comfortably do the 23L batches and allow me to do "half" (12L) batches if i ever wish to.

So my question is that if I get a kettle that is capable of doing a 46L double batch will that comfortably do a 23L batch without dramas and if so what about a 12L batch should I ever wish to.

Next questions are about mash tuns - esky mash tuns in particular. I'm looking at esky mash tuns as they are relatively cheap and from what I've seen on here and read they are not really something you really need to spend a great deal on to get excellent results.
So is a 25L (roughly) esky big enough for 23L batches (this will be upgraded if i decided to do double batches - probably to a SS vessel with a HERMS system as I really like this concept - actually I'd thought about it before id heard or even read about it) and will it suffice for 12L batches or will it be too big as ive read that you dont want your mash tun too large in relation to your batch size?

If I decided to stick with just single batches what size kettle should I be looking at ? I was thinking a 35 - 40L kettle for this size batch would that be ok?

I think I'm sold on the smaller size batch as 23L is what roughly 2 and a bit slabs? that for me and my partner usually would take a little over 5 weeks to get through as we arent big drinkers - plus id rather brew a few batches so I can have a few different beers (along with at least one cider as we drink as much cider as beer - if not more) on tap to choose from.

 

[balconybrewer]

5 US gal = 22.73 Lts
6 US gal = 27.28 Lts

 

[Jakechan]

Is this the same Komodo from SNA/FWC?

You ask excellent questions, all of them have been in my mind for a while. I will be keen to read the answers.

Cheers,
Jake

 

[schooey]

5 US gal = 22.73 Lts
6 US gal = 27.28 Lts

Better go have a Google dude...

5 Imperial Gallons is 22.73 L

 

[komodo]

5 US gal = 22.73 Lts
6 US gal = 27.28 Lts

I think your thinking imperial gallons
5 Imperial gallons = 22.73 litres
6 Imperial gallons = 27.28 litres

where as
5 US gallons = 18.93 litres
6 US gallons = 22.71 litres

---

Hi Jake - yes its the same Komodo from SNA and FWC and MEA (though im now sparkles on MEA) and Patrol4x4 and camping.com.au and many other forums

Good to see you on here

 

[Screwtop]

(been there done that in other hobbies - it costs me too much in the long run)

Cooler mash tuns are ok, min 38L. For double batches HLT and Kettle volumes min 80L.

Screwy

 

[brotom7]

For the mash tun I went with a 50l esky even though I was only doing partials in the beginning.
I knew I would do ag once I got all the other stuff together so it made sense to get that size at once.
So about 10-12l of water at a time in it.
I found that if I boiled 2l of water and put in the esky 20 min before mashing to allow it to heat up the walls then I only lost about 2 degrees over an hour. I didn't do this the first time I used the esky and then the temp dropped too low and I tried to compensate with more hot water and over compensated and..... temp was all over the place.

I've read people that take put something isolating on top of the mash to minimize the impact of the dead space and then they loose even less temp.

 

[komodo]

Any comments on using such a large kettle for very small (half) batches screwy?

I was thinking I would use a cooler from techniice as they are just down the road and I've had good experience with their coolers in the past (using them as ice coolers admittedly). They make also a 40L cooler so that should suit - its not too pricy either.
You say "Cooler mash tuns are ok" by that are you implying you think there is significant gains to be had from using a stainless vessel as a mash vessel?

I will also be investing in a march pump as im a little scared by the prospect of near boiling water at or above head height on a mobile brew stand (actually ready to buy now just searching for cheapest place to buy from)

 

[schooey]

I have a 50L mash tun and began with an 80L kettle (old 18 gal keg). I found it a pain in the arse when doing anything smaller than 30L batches. I ended up getting a 50L kettle as well for smaller batches and making them inter-changeable on my rig.

 

[Screwtop]

Any comments on using such a large kettle for very small (half) batches screwy?

I was thinking I would use a cooler from techniice as they are just down the road and I've had good experience with their coolers in the past (using them as ice coolers admittedly). They make also a 40L cooler so that should suit - its not too pricy either.
You say "Cooler mash tuns are ok" by that are you implying you think there is significant gains to be had from using a stainless vessel as a mash vessel?

I will also be investing in a march pump as im a little scared by the prospect of near boiling water at or above head height on a mobile brew stand (actually ready to buy now just searching for cheapest place to buy from)

Kettles are kettles, same boiloff losses (well insignicant differences) for a given kettle for single or double batches (surface area related, plus a few other variables which don't make a lot of difference).

SS Mash tun is a personal preference, if you progress to direct heated mash tun and step mashes then there would be obvious disadvantages. I think they would be suitable in a HERMS situation, no experience with this so maybe need to hear from HERMS brewers who use cooler mash tuns.

March pump on the horizon already... I'd be going SS mash tun, something suitable for plumbing through the side walls instead of the cooler mash tun.

Hope this helps.

Screwy

 

[vicelore]

Im in the exact same process and thaught patterns and.

Iv been told to go 70L Hlt 50L MT and 70L kettle for double batches..

Thats which way im heading.

Cheers Vice

 

[schooey]

Kettles are kettles

Not in my case... my 80L has an immersion chiller fitted to utilise almost it's full height, so a 54L batch just covers the top of the coil. With a 23L batch, there's only about a third of the coil in it.... like I said, pain in the arse. Also, the deadspace in my 80L is about 2L v's 500 ml in my 50L kettle...

I know these things will vary in everyone's applications i.e. if you use a plate chiller you wont have my chiller coil issue etc etc. Just adding some food for thought

 

[Screwtop]

Im in the exact same process and thaught patterns and.

Iv been told to go 70L Hlt 50L MT and 70L kettle for double batches..

Thats which way im heading.

Cheers Vice

That is good advice, 70L HLT would allow for the 68 or so litres of total brewing water required for beers to a max OG of arount 1.057 with a 90 min boil. Anything bigger say Bock's etc and you would need more HLT space for preparing all of your brewing water in one go.


Screwy

 

[komodo]

Interesting comments guys keep them coming - its cheaper to learn from others
Plus even peoples opinions give me things to research to come to my own opinions and conclusions.

With a (HLT)70L / (MASH)50L / (KETTLE)70L setup would I still be able to brew a 12L (half) batch properly without any dramas (this is a concern for me at the moment)

 

[schooey]

Just from gut feeling, but I doubt you'd make a 12L batch successfully in my 80L kettle. I'd rather boil it on the stove in an 18L stock pot I have. I have an old corny to convert into a Mash Tun just for the purpose of doing half batches for experimental recipes, just for that reason

 

[br33zy]

Interesting comments guys keep them coming - its cheaper to learn from others
Plus even peoples opinions give me things to research to come to my own opinions and conclusions.

With a (HLT)70L / (MASH)50L / (KETTLE)70L setup would I still be able to brew a 12L (half) batch properly without any dramas (this is a concern for me at the moment)

Hi Komodo,

I'm using a 98l stainless kettle with fitted tap, pickup and thermometer. When [topic="28890"]calibrating the volume[/topic] the other night I noted that I needed 12l in the kettle just to submerge the pickup plumbing on the inside; and 26l to submerge the thermometer probe and housing. The pickup empties to 2l.

So, technically I could boil a 12l batch - probably starting with 12l + 2l + ~3l (evaporation) = 17l. I guess I'd have trouble measuring the temperature though:|

Cheers

Breezy

 

[Darren]

Komodo,

Its alot of effort to make only 12 litres. I would consider 23 litres as your smallest batch size and grab the biggest pot you can.

The chances are you will increase batch size as time goes by.

cheers

Darren

 

[Screwtop]

Komodo,

Its alot of effort to make only 12 litres. I would consider 23 litres as your smallest batch size and grab the biggest pot you can.

The chances are you will increase batch size as time goes by.

cheers

Darren

+1

Basically the same amount of work/time, use the 23L batches to hone your skills. It takes some time to settle on beer styles/recipes that you like, then you can step up in volume. Throwing beer out hurts, believe me. All brewers make mistakes, more so when learning. This can be due to poor sanitation, fermentation or recipe formulation. In the early days you will drink a lot of bad beer believing it to be good, as it's better than you've produced in the past, but as your palate improves along with your brewing skills there will be some beers that you just can't drink. Have had beer in a keg for months waiting to see if it will improve, then ended up tipping it out. Doesn't seem to hurt as much once the memory of the effort required to make it has diminished :lol:

Small batches end up not so small when system losses are taken into account. Some good suggestions here re small batches, use cheap SS pots from Big W of 10 to 20L for your pilot batches. Some of the recipes found on brewing sites are shockers, and designing your own is riskey until you truly understand brewing. Best to ask experienced brewers if they will share their recipes or at least look over a recipe you may have designed or obtained from somewhere. All of this advice will help you decide on the design of your system, thats the beauty and purpose of this forum, you can be well informed prior to making a decision.

Screwy

 

[bconnery]

Whenever anyone asks this sort of question the standard response on here is to go big, as 'some day you'll want to do double batches' or variants to that theme.
I counter with this.
Ask yourself what you want to get out of your brewing? Are you going to find a few recipes you like and brew 46 odd litres of them, with single batches along the way?

If so, go big. Nothing wrong with double batch brewing.
But I always disagree with the almost automatic assumption that someday any brewer will want to do double batches.
If I could buy my equipment all over again with an unlimited budget, I'd still only want the capacity to brew 'standard' size batches.
Variety is everything in my brewery.

But that's me, as I said, ask yourself what you see as being your preferred method, and go with the best size pots you need for that...

I personally have a 25L HLT / 30L Mash / 40L kettle and it's just a little small all round. Works just fine, but I went with slightly cheaper rather than ideal.
I need to heat two batches of water, I start to run into my limits on bigger beers mash tun wise and I have to watch my boils in the early stages a lot.
By preference I'd have 30 / 40 / 50 as an absolute minimum.

 

[alowen474]

Good to see you are getting in!!
I have a 90L stainless HLT with 3600 watt element and mashmate thermo control. You want to have enough hot water!! Youll need at least 10 - 15L more than you want to end up with. Takes 3 hrs to heat 80L and an hr to heat 30L.

I have a 50L keg set up as a mash tun of course acquired legally. Can do 20, 40 and 60L batches in this You just need a decent grain bed ie 4in. Don't have heat for this, just heat the mash water to 82 degrees and find the keg temp balances out with the water and mash to about 65 degrees, practice makes perfect. I wrap it with thick foam mat to insulate and a bit of polystyrene over the top to keep the heat in.

For a kettle a good old fashioned 18 gallon keg with the top cut out on a 4 ring burner. Look at a better burner than these, they work fine for a small batch but take a while to boil a big one. Start the burner as soon as you get enough in your kettle so it wont boil right away then the boil will start 10 - 15 min after the end of sparge!!
Still can do single, double or tripple batches. Gets a bit hairy on the boil in a 60L batch, but all my batches now are 60L as it takes just as long to make.

Get some good info on the false bottom and hop screen as these items will give you grief if you dont have the right setup.

Pump from the kettle via March pump, through the chillout version3 into the fridgemate controlled fridge and away you go!!

Too easy I sure all will agree!!!