Enzyme Power / Abilty In Ag For Rice And Oats Etc ?

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Maheel

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is there some sort of ratio needed when adding rice or instant oats etc to all grain mashing

whats the max grain to rice or grain to oats when mashing to ensure good conversion of the rice etc?

is longer mashing going to assist conversion in higher ratio eg 1kg grain to 1kg rice?

thanks
 
From what I remember of Jamil's podcast... He said the enzymes from the barley don't get used up converting adjuncts... So the higher the percentage of adjuncts the longer it will take the enzymes to convert all the available starches to sugars

As for max percentages... I don't know but someone here should... :icon_cheers:
 
In a normal mash, it depends on the diastatic power of the individual base malts. Rule of thumb - UK malts are fairly low in diastatic power, use up to 15% unmalted grains. German Pilsener malts such as Weyermann can take up to 30% and the Aussie malts such as Barret Burston Ale, JW etc can convert a bit more than that.
 
I've found that Barrett Burston malts will convert enough adjunct to make your beer have too much adjunct.
 
Forget Jamil, this is how its really done:

Galaxy malt was the highest diastatic power malt I have come across and used in Australia. I am trying to remember the percentage, WK 270 –325 min. For the degrees lintner nerds, Lintner=(WK+16)/3.5 for the formula. In reverse WK=3.5*Lintner – 16.

So that would put it at nearly 100 L.

British malts would start at 40 L. and Dark Munichs at 20 L.

And of course your torrifieds, crystals, chocs and blacks are 0 L.

You have to keep your total L at or above 30 or above for your grist to ensure proper conversion in a short amount of time or if lower you have a long mash time to convert.

Lets see if the forum supports a formula:

Σ(Grain Litner x Grain Weight)
--------------------------------------
(Total Batch Weight)


Just making up an example for calculation purposes only:

(3 kilos of 100 L Galaxy malt) + (1 kilo of 20 L Munich malt) + (0.5 kilo of 0 L Crystal malt) + (0.5 kilo of 0 L Chocolate malt) / 5 kilos total grain bill = 64 L which is plenty of diastatic power to spare. You can chuck a heap more adjuncts in with this Galaxy and still convert in early time.



Cheers,
Brewer Pete
 
I really wish people would quit saying this, its wrong and been done to death. Galaxy although high in Amylase, wasnt wildly outside the norm in enzymes other than Glucanase, there it is exceptional.
The Lintner is an American unit all Australian malt (and the rest of the world to for that matter) comes measured in oWK (Windisch-Kolbach), both systems refer to Amylase activity.
COAs for all malts come with oWK listed on them tho the conversion is fairly easy, Weyermann have Diastatic Barley Malt available at over 300 oWK, (or for the luddites 90+ oL) and most good Australian Pale malts will be around that sort of activity including Galaxy.
MHB
 
Galaxy is discontinued mate so you won't have to worry anymore.
 
Thanks for the help

so if i head towards BB ale etc i might push it to 40% adjunct and be able to convert it to a good level and help it along with a longer mash.

this is really just experimetal mashing as i was cleaning out the cupboard and found some old oats and there's always rice in there as well.
was thinking about just tossing it the 19l pot and seeing what happens, but i wanted to try to ensure i would get it to convert properly so i could taste the sugars

i have some 5L demi's and was thinking of some very small batches of "wonder what that tastes like".. in the bottom of the ferment fridge

i have mucked about with apple juice etc a few times and mostly made liquid sick, but mashing is much more interesting :)
 
For me, 30% is the most adjunct I'll put in a beer. After that it starts (not) tasting, like Miller, or Coors.
 
American beers that are made with over 50% adjuncts are produced with American six row barley, which is a diastatic monster, but that's why they started doing it back in the 19th Century. At the time that the likes of Bud got going, mass produced glassware was only just becoming available to the public and the American malts were producing persistent hazes unless mashed with lots of adjunct.

There is a common misconception that American beers were full, rich and malty before Prohibition and that the use of adjuncts was a rort introduced by the few big surviving breweries after Prohibition ended. However, whilst hop rates have declined, their beers were adjunct laden from way back:

Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1911

In America the common system of brewing is one of infusion mashing combined with bottom fermentation. The method of mashing, however, though on infusion lines, differs appreciably from the English process. A very low initial heatabout 100 F. at which the mash remains for about an hour, is employed. After this the temperature is rapidly raised to 153-156 F. by running in the boiling "cooker mash," i.e. raw grain wort from the converter. After a period the temperature is gradually increased to about 165 F. The very low initial heat, and the employment of relatively large quantities of readily transformable malt adjuncts, enable the American brewer to make use of a class of malt which would be considered quite unfit for brewing in an English brewery. The system of fermentation is very similar to the continental "lager" system, and the beer obtained bears some resemblance to the German product. To the English palate it is somewhat flavourless, but it is always retailed in exceedingly brilliant condition and at a proper temperature. There can be little doubt that every nation evolves a type of beer most suited to its climate and the temperament of the people, and in this respect the modern American beer is no exception. In regard to plant and mechanical arrangements generally, the modern American breweries may serve as an object-lesson to the European brewer, although there are certainly a number of breweries in the United Kingdom which need not fear comparison with the best American plants.
 
I had a Miller Gen-u-whine Draaaaft in an airport bar recently and boy, lordy if it di'n't taste like someone had cut out my tongue and stuffed two wads of cotton-pickin balls in my nose.

I asked the barkeep if they could put a shot of beer in it so it would taste more like beer and then we started arguing about Fosters.
 
nick why did you ask for that beer in the first instance?
 

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