Enhanced Biab With Lauter Tun Stage

[Thirsty Boy]

The thing to remember with your bucket in urn solutions - is that heat will not magically transfer into the bucket. It doesn't do it even with a bag, so it certainly wont with a solid border between the heat source and the grains.

So you'll need to get it in there. I'm not sure that just stirring will actaully be enough... It might, but i just get a gut feel that it wont be. Recirculation absolutely will, but comes with its own issues.

I hate to bring it up again... But this stuff has mostly been done before. I say this not to discourage you from looking for alternate solutions to your brewing dilemmas, but just so that you know there are solutions already in place. You guys are thinking about making mash/lauter tuns.... but looking at it like BIAB brewers. Thats possibly going to mean you dream uo some new things that work, but it also means that you do tend to ignore a body of very servicable pre-existing types of system that are very nearly identical to what you propose to build. You can of course discover the issues with your type of system and develop solutions - all from first principles on your own, if you like. but you dont have to.

From what i see, i think you guys would benefit from having a look at how some jacketed mashing systems work, and perhaps some of the stock re-circulating systems too. Your issues will occur when you try to combine temperature control via the elements... with avoiding manual intervention. Leave the element off - no issues. Have it on but be willing to stand there and stir/pump/hoist/dump whatever - no issues. Want the element on, but Not want to handle the heat distribution and measurement manually??? - then you'll need to start implementing "solutions"

Bribie's system on the other hand... I just cant see any controversy in it. Its a multi vessel system with mash/kettle, a Lauter tun and a break tank (bucket) Its as standard as its possible to get. The vast majority of pro-brewers i know, if asked to build a versatile, 20ish litre brewery without breaking the bank, would build something that was nearly exactly the same.

 

[MarkBastard]

The thing to remember with your bucket in urn solutions - is that heat will not magically transfer into the bucket. It doesn't do it even with a bag, so it certainly wont with a solid border between the heat source and the grains.

So you'll need to get it in there. I'm not sure that just stirring will actaully be enough... It might, but i just get a gut feel that it wont be. Recirculation absolutely will, but comes with its own issues.

Not sure if you were talking about the idea I was talking about, but I don't see how this is an issue with it? You heat up your strike water, put the bucket in, and then put the grain in. Just like you'd do with a bag. I was never proposing step mashes or anything like that.

 

[Bribie G]

Step mashing, ve haf vays



What you say is spot on, TB. The whole concept came to me when I was standing in Murray's brewery which is a scaled up version of the BribieLautinator system, although at that time they didn't suspect a thing
Yes to make the ghetto malt tube system work I'd really need a pump and a system similar to Nala's recently posted work of art. I'm really only playing around with it and at the end of the day all I stand to lose is a ten dollar Handypail with lots of holes drilled in the bottom.

FB, talking about HandyPails, one of those would hold 20k if you could manage it ok, and would give a good squeeze, as well as easily fitting into that pot

BDB - I'd expect the malt pipe idea to give the same efficiency as a straight BIAB, but if I sparged a bit as well on hoisting the pipe, I'd get maybe a couple of extra points. So far my effic. has gone up from 70-75 to about 80 using the lauter tun, I've got a refractometer now so I can monitor this quite closely nowadays.

 

[Tim F]

FWIW my system is essentially the bucket in bucket design plus the cheap brown pump to recirc and works pretty well, I just use a heat exchanges instead of a direct element . I think bucket in urn will work well too, and you could do steps with it in a pinch, you just lift out the bucket, heat wort in urn to the next strike temp, put the bucket back (slowly) and stir. The benefit I can see compared to a biab bag is lifting the bucket is easier / less messy and you get a proper grain bed and can vorlauf.

 

[Bribie G]

And with my new pulley system, withdrawing the bucket can be precisely controlled.
Tim where did you get your pump from and $$$?
Do you have a link or a photo?

 

[Tim F]

i'll have to wait till i'm home tonight to paste the link but mine was about $50 shipped from solarshop.co.uk (i think). You can get them for 35 on ebay with some debate about whether they are exactly the same and food safe. I've seen an even better one for $77 on ebay recently, i started a thread about it and the brown ones if you can find threads by me? Just cant find it on my phone now.

 

[Bribie G]

Thanks Tim, tracked that one down. What voltage one did you get and how do you power yours?

I take it this is the model:

 

[MarkBastard]

Bribie, I just bought one of these:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...ME:L:OC:AU:1123

About $40 inc postage (Australian).

Not sure if it's the same or not, I'm going to use it to flood my font if it doesn't seem food grade or whatever.

 

[Tim F]

Yep that's the one, i think mine said 9-12 volt and i'm running it off an old cordless drill power pack that had the right specs. Think some people are using phone chargers too.

 

[nala]

FWIW my system is essentially the bucket in bucket design plus the cheap brown pump to recirc and works pretty well, I just use a heat exchanges instead of a direct element . I think bucket in urn will work well too, and you could do steps with it in a pinch, you just lift out the bucket, heat wort in urn to the next strike temp, put the bucket back (slowly) and stir. The benefit I can see compared to a biab bag is lifting the bucket is easier / less messy and you get a proper grain bed and can vorlauf.

I don't have to lift the bucket !
Pumping the wort into the top of the bucket via the SP20/20 mini pump,recirculates the wort, the temperature of the wort I control by an STC1000.
This system is not fully automatic because after each step I have to reset the STC1000 to the next step temperature,not a problem only takes seconds. I have the temperature sensor dangling in the wort that is in the Crown urn, it could be in the bucket, I am trying different things, but everything works OK as I see it.

 

[nala]

Thanks Tim, tracked that one down. What voltage one did you get and how do you power yours?

I take it this is the model:

View attachment 49090

That is the same as mine : SP20/20, 12 volt - 6 litres/minute @ 3 Metre head. Temperature 120oC rating.

www.solarprojects.co.uk.

 

[Tim F]

nala I tried to do steps without lifting the pot but found there was a fair lag time getting the actual grain up to desired mash temp - you either run your returning wort hotter than target temp and risk overshooting or you return at target temp and take longer to equalise. But maybe using an element directly like you are instead of my HEX would make this easier! Be interesting to compare both ways. I'm adding an element to the bottom of my mash tun/kettle soon anyway...

 

[stux]

nala I tried to do steps without lifting the pot but found there was a fair lag time getting the actual grain up to desired mash temp - you either run your returning wort hotter than target temp and risk overshooting or you return at target temp and take longer to equalise. But maybe using an element directly like you are instead of my HEX would make this easier! Be interesting to compare both ways. I'm adding an element to the bottom of my mash tun/kettle soon anyway...

From my readings a PID controller would take care of this.

Basically it'd run the return flat out, and then lower the temperature to cruise to the final point.

Much like when you're coming up to a red light... you slow down, then stop, rather than slamming on the breaks when you get to the light

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Not sure if you were talking about the idea I was talking about, but I don't see how this is an issue with it? You heat up your strike water, put the bucket in, and then put the grain in. Just like you'd do with a bag. I was never proposing step mashes or anything like that.

Exactly as I said then - if you aren't planning on turning the element on and trying to add heat, no issue at all.

 

[Bribie G]

Ok guys, time for yappin is over, a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do cause if a man don't do what a man's supposed to do then a man don't deserve to be called a man nohow (John Wayne 1952)


See new thread as this one's wandered in that direction anyhows. Sorry I meant anyway

 

[tavas]

Bribie

I may have missed it in the preceeding pages, but which efficiency are you measuring? Mash or brewhouse?