Efficiency On The Way Up

[Benniee]

A little while ago I posted up a thread about getting back into AG brewing, and also of some efficiency woes I had. Rather than drag up the old thread if anyone's interested that can read through it here.

So, undetered I went at the same recipe again - this time with my own grain mill and a finer crush (0.9mm), and also with a piece of foam to float on top of the mash to hopefully keep the temp a bit more stable.

Short story is good - efficiency went up to 76%, got 25L of 1.052 wort from 5.6kg of grain. Pretty happy with this but obviously there is some room for improvement.

With my crush of 0.9mm the sparge was fine (I batch sparge), so should I attempt to bring this down to 0.85 or even 0.8. Could be worth doing a brew at a finer gap to see if it makes any difference to the efficiency.

Also on the sparge I aimed for two run-offs of equal volume, but the first was a little down because I skipped my mashout.

Floating the foam on top of the mash made a BIG difference to the stability of the temp. Anyone who hasn't yet done this should give it a go - I got a big piece of polystyrene foam and trimmed it down to fit in my esky.

I got about 30L into my kettle, and boiled it down to 25L in around 60-70 mins. I'm thinking I could probably mash and sparge with a little more liquid in an attempt to get a bit more out of the grains, but I don't know how much extra this will give me.

At the end of the day if I get mid 70's from my system I'll be happy, but as I'm currently improving things I'm wondering if there are other avenues I can look at to get my system tuned.

Anyway - this has turned out to be a bit of a mammoth post.

Benniee

 

[David Sinclair]

I'm hearing ya Benniee, efficency is a priority of mine at the moment too. I'm thinking of trying that 5.2 ph stabilizer but not sure how well it will work with tank water.
I've heard gypsum is good but haven't tried it - not to sure where to even get it.

So, really i've got more questions than answers ....

But thanks for the foam idea, might give that a go.

Cheers Dave.

 

[Cortez The Killer]

I found that the polystyrene was a pain to clean after use as it soaked up the wort and it'd go a bit funky (moldy)

I swapped over to camping mat which I hose down and peg on the clothes line to dry and am much happier with it

Congratulations on increased efficiency

Cheers

 

[RobW]

A sheet of aluminium foil on top of the mash does a good job and you can just chuck it out afterwards.

 

[Julez]

You could try continuous sparging instead of batch, as advocated by Palmer to get a bit more efficiency. Also, you could try a temperature rest at 40 degrees to break up any remaining beta glucans, thereby potentially increasing the modification of your malts by a small amount and making more starch available for conversion in the mash.

Personally, I get consistently in the 83-88% zone for my mash efficiency - i.e. my post-mash SG divided by potential extract. I attribute this to:

* Continuous sparging
* Beerbelly false bottom
* Attention to mash pH
* low temp rest at 40 degrees

Mashout will help a tiny bit too, but if you already have a fairly thin mash, it probably won't make much difference. Mashout is more useful for a thicker mash. Good practice to employ one anyway though.

Cheers and good luck :icon_cheers:

 

[geoffi]

I'm hearing ya Benniee, efficency is a priority of mine at the moment too. I'm thinking of trying that 5.2 ph stabilizer but not sure how well it will work with tank water.
I've heard gypsum is good but haven't tried it - not to sure where to even get it.

So, really i've got more questions than answers ....

But thanks for the foam idea, might give that a go.

Cheers Dave.

I'm on tank water, and my efficiency is consistently around 85%.

It was around 75%. Then I heard a Craftbrewer podcast where they discussed water additions and efficiency. I followed the general guidelines, and suddenly got 10% extra.

My procedure is to add a good teaspoon of citric acid (from the baking section of any supermarket) to the grist. (Although if I was brewing a dark beer I might skip this as the dark grains bring down the PH anyway.) At the same time, I'll add a sprinkle of table salt and bicarb, as well as some gypsum (1 tsp) and epsom salts (1/2 tsp) for ales, or a teaspoon of calcium chloride for lagers. I know there are all sorts of calculators/calculations/recipes etc for these type of additions, but I've found this works for me and it's dead simple.

 

[Cortez The Killer]

Then I heard a Craftbrewer podcast where they discussed water additions and efficiency. I followed the general guidelines, and suddenly got 10% extra.

Hi Geoff

Would you have a link to this podcast?

Cheers

 

[SJW]

I found my eff. went up once I started cracking my own grain too. But rather than reducing the gap of the mill any further, and creating even more flour, try running the grain through a second time. It goes through 10 times faster and it will preserve the husks from the first pass while cracking any larger particles.
I use a peice of 30mm Aero Flex (insulation foam) on top of the mash. Punch a hole in it to jam a thermometer through just to keep the mashmaster dial one honest.
Sounds like your one the right track though.

Steve

 

[geoffi]

Hi Geoff

Would you have a link to this podcast?

Cheers

No, I don't have the link to the exact episode. I think it was from mid last year sometime, maybe June. Here's the link to the archive page:

http://radio.craftbrewer.org/

 

[Cortez The Killer]

No, I don't have the link to the exact episode. I think it was from mid last year sometime, maybe June. Here's the link to the archive page:

http://radio.craftbrewer.org/

Thanks

What batch size are you adding these additions to?

Cheers

 

[geoffi]

Thanks

What batch size are you adding these additions to?

Cheers

That's for a ~ 21 litre batch. I now usually do 34 or 38 litres depending on cube availability, so I adjust up accordingly, by adding 'some' more. Whatever looks like the right extra amount. Not very scientific, I'll admit, but it seems to work.

 

[David Sinclair]

Thanks Geoff, that's what i've been looking for, it's off to the supermarket to get me some efficency :icon_chickcheers:

 

[kram]

Graham from Craftbrewer Radio is currently doing "citric acid experiments" on volumes, amounts etc... So if you make additions and have results, fire them to him at [email protected] 'cause i'm sure he'd be keen to hear the results.

Based on Brisbane water (from Enoggera) he recommended the following:

For a batch of 38 litres, I would add 1/3 teaspoon to the mash water, and 1/2 teaspoon to the sparge water. That should indeed get you fairly close to the target pH.

I just realised the sparge additions for my last beer I made were not resized for my batch volume. I did test the PH though, and it was somewhere in the high 5s to 6 region. I'm yet to taste the beers but i'm now in the 80-85% region for efficiency since making water additions.

 

[Benniee]

Thanks for all the replies.

I wasn't really looking to play with water chemistry just yet, so I'll probably watch from the sidelines while a few of you try water additions. I don't really feel comforatble adjusting the water until I know what I'm adjusting. I don't know where to get the specs from on the Hunter Water website.

Good info re the polystyrene getting a bit gross. I did give it a good look over when cleaning up, and wiped it down as best I could. I hope it survives, otherwise it'll be off to the camping store - I'm guessing the camping mats people talk about are those thin foam matresses that you can roll up. Any idea what I would expect to pay for one?

Good idea running the grain through the mill twice too. I'll probably give that a try. My next brew might be a little difficult to compare though because it has a significiant amount of darker grains which I've read can adjust the mash ph easier than the lighter grains. I'm sure I have some pH strips lying around so I'll have to check my next mash? When is the best time to do this? And do I just dip the strip in the mash? Is there a minimum time to leave it in there? I think I need to do a bit of searching...

My mash tun is a basic esky set up with a stainless steel hose braid, and not having too many brews on the system just yet I'm not looking to change to a false bottom or anything. It seems to function ok for a batch sparge - obviously if I changed to fly sparging I'd need to make some changes.

At the end of the day if all I can get is mid 70's it won't be the end of the world. If I can creep toward 80 then that'll do me just fine

Thanks again guys - All helpful input and much appreciated.
Benniee

 

[Julez]

Graham from Craftbrewer Radio is currently doing "citric acid experiments" on volumes, amounts etc... So if you make additions and have results, fire them to him at [email protected] 'cause i'm sure he'd be keen to hear the results.

Based on Brisbane water (from Enoggera) he recommended the following:



I just realised the sparge additions for my last beer I made were not resized for my batch volume. I did test the PH though, and it was somewhere in the high 5s to 6 region. I'm yet to taste the beers but i'm now in the 80-85% region for efficiency since making water additions.

Just on that, good luck working out which dam your water actually comes from! I have talked to BCC and their scientific services guys and someone from SEQ Water, and noone could tell me where my water was coming from. Apparently the Enoggera Dam is not in use at the moment (even though specs available on BCC site), most water for the North side of BRS "probably" comes from Mt Crosby, I'm told. But a lot of umming and arring from whoever I talked to

 

[Cortez The Killer]

Camping mat is around $8-10

Cheers

 

[David Sinclair]

Can anyone tell me where i can get gypsum? I've been looking aroung and i'm at a loss where i can get it

Any suggestions?

Cheers Dave.

 

[geoffi]

Can anyone tell me where i can get gypsum? I've been looking aroung and i'm at a loss where i can get it

Any suggestions?

Cheers Dave.

You can usually buy it at your local HBS. It might be hiding under the name calcium sulphate.

I use plaster of Paris bought from a hobby shop. Same stuff, AFAIK, but a whoooole lot cheaper. (Maybe not strictly 'food grade', but I'm still here.)

 

[David Sinclair]

Yeah i thought of plaster of paris but wasn't sure about the food grade thing, but like you said your still here ....

 

[matti]

My procedure is to add a good teaspoon of citric acid (from the baking section of any supermarket) to the grist. (Although if I was brewing a dark beer I might skip this as the dark grains bring down the PH anyway.) At the same time, I'll add a sprinkle of table salt and bicarb, as well as some gypsum (1 tsp) and epsom salts (1/2 tsp) for ales, or a teaspoon of calcium chloride for lagers. I know there are all sorts of calculators/calculations/recipes etc for these type of additions, but I've found this works for me and it's dead simple.

+1
Started doing this with partial 3 years ago and continued with it since going AG. 10 AG and all good.

On insulation the foam on top is great idea too. Camping mats are ok but most of the heat escape through the top.
I use a glass lid that fit into my 36 L cooler then put the lid on and a cooler bag on top.
Beeewdiful....