E-keggle Won't Maintain Boil

[iralosavic]

Jumping on the question for Steve

I would cut it/ mount so you can easily remove it, just to make cleaning easy.

QldKev

Roger that. My idea of only cutting holes to match the holes in the kettle was to maximise surface area being covered, but I guess a 5cm diameter hole won't do much harm.

By the way, if insulation assists with both the heating times and total heating power, as well as the preservation of heat (I single vessle BIAB) during mash, why would I want to remove it? Is it really going to keep it boiling for that much longer and create too much lag before whirlpooling?

Oh and should I possibly look at insulating the under side of the keg too?

 

[QldKev]

Roger that. My idea of only cutting holes to match the holes in the kettle was to maximise surface area being covered, but I guess a 5cm diameter hole won't do much harm.

By the way, if insulation assists with both the heating times and total heating power, as well as the preservation of heat (I single vessle BIAB) during mash, why would I want to remove it? Is it really going to keep it boiling for that much longer and create too much lag before whirlpooling?

Oh and should I possibly look at insulating the under side of the keg too?

I was more thinking about spilling a bit of wort down the side of the kettle and cleaning up. Don't want to make brewing hard for yourself, especially around clean up time.

I think as long as we insulated the majority we should get where we want to be. Steve is probably the best to comment in terms of efficiency.

But now thinking about it, I do do think it would be beneficial to remove the insulation as soon as flame out to help reduce the heat as quick as possible. It will help both if you no-chill or chill. Chilling is pretty straight forward, no chill it will help reduce the hot currents lifting the trub back into suspension.

Kev

 

[Thirsty Boy]

some insulation (removable) on the outside and something to cut down the surface area of the wort. I float an aluminium pie tin on top of my boil - reduces heat loss from the surface, lets that heat get on with boiling the wort.

Boiling hard is for real men who dont really understand how brewing works....

Boiling hard enough is all thats required - a 2200W element should do that if you let all its heat go into the wort and not run away through the surface and the sides of the pot.

witness - 1 x 2400 w element boiling, at a perfectly acceptable level of vigour, a +50L pre boil batch. Insulation on outside of pot, float on the surface of the wort to cut down surface area. It takes a while to get boiling, but once there does fine. (note: using plastic bucket lid as float in video... have swapped to a $1 aluminium pie tin)

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i315/Thi...oy/9fb4b84a.mp4

 

[Nick JD]

I float an aluminium pie tin on top of my boil - reduces heat loss from the surface, lets that heat get on with boiling the wort.

Nah it doesn't. It just restricts the surface area where the steam can escape to half the amount - which doubles the apparent boil vigour. The insulating properties of a floating pie dish are next to zero.

Only kidding yourself, Thirsty. But sometimes that's all that matters.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Nah it doesn't. It just restricts the surface area where the steam can escape to half the amount - which doubles the apparent boil vigour. The insulating properties of a floating pie dish are next to zero.

Only kidding yourself, Thirsty. But sometimes that's all that matters.

no - your absolutely and completely wrong about that, but thats OK - you're absolutely and completely wrong about many things. Thisnis just one of the more amusingly simple things you fail to understand.

Other people understand this nick - its not even very hard - i could explain it to you, but quite frankly i like to watch you demonstrate your own ignorance. keep it up, it amuses me.

 

[matho]

Nick I do believe that thristy has a point, I can see where you are coming from say you have only reduced the amount of area where the boil is able to escape so it looks more vigorous.

If you look at the graphs the top one shows losses through uninsulated metals, at a temperature differential of 80 deg you get about 1kW per square meter loss, now if you look at the bottom graph which shows heat loss in open water tanks at boiling you are getting 16.5 kW per square meter.

30 cm pot area = 0.07 m2 = 1.16kW of heat loss

20cm area (pie dish) = 0.03 m2 = 0.5kW of heat loss

so with thirsty floating a pie dish on top he has taken away an area of air to water contact that is losing 0.5kW and has replaced it with an area losing 0.03kW so he is keeping more heat in the wort increasing the boil vigour.

cheers

 

[iralosavic]

Thanks all for chiming in. I have just attempted a 28L boil with insulated walls (used a camping mat). It reached the boil faster than previously, but was still unable to maintain it 5 minutes after I removed the lid. I'm about to see how it goes with a 20cm pie dish floating around in there, as per Dan's inventive idea. I've only got either heavy dishes or non-stick, but if it does the job, I'll look around for a stainless or aluminium one. Cheers

Edit: didn't measure the dish diameter, but it looks small floating around in the 40cm ID of the keggle. It has been maintaining a boil for 5 minutes so far.

 

[bum]

I've used square boaty-things (sort of like a really shallow box) I've knocked up from aluminium foil in the past. Seem to do the job just as well as the foil baking dish things TB recommends. You need to use a few layers to get some strength to it but.

 

[iralosavic]

Ok, it has been 15 minutes and there is no sign of the boil reducing in vigour. It wasn't as intense as the one pictured in Thirstyboy's video, but certainly still "rolling". I might source a slightly larger pie dish and call it problem solved. Cheers

Oh and - the power cord was really hot at the base, the extension plug point (element has an integrated 50cm female power lead, to which I've attached a 1.5m male to male) and the power point. Is this a cause for concern for long boils?

 

[bum]

to which I've attached a 1.5m male to male

Ah, the good ol' suicide cord.

Back in my day the mere mention of this would have caused a shitfight - today it will probably become standard brew gear.

 

[iralosavic]

Ah, the good ol' suicide cord.

Back in my day the mere mention of this would have caused a shitfight - today it will probably become standard brew gear.

You know what reminded me I even had one? I was at hospital the other day and noticed that in a "body protected electrical area" there was a male to male power plug hanging from a wall socket to the ground - the switch within easy reach of a todler. Hmmmmmm

EDIT: It was in a childrens' emergency consulting room, complete with jungle theme wall paintings. A good a place as any to see a suicide cord at knee height.

 

[JaseH]

Oh and - the power cord was really hot at the base, the extension plug point (element has an integrated 50cm female power lead, to which I've attached a 1.5m male to male) and the power point. Is this a cause for concern for long boils?

If its the Keg King element, then its actually a male end on the element lead, the IEC male connectors have a shroud over the pins which makes it appear like a female, and the female connector fits inside the male connector(a product of womens lib gone mad?). The additional lead you use is a standard male to IEC female - all good

 

[iralosavic]

If its the Keg King element, then its actually a male end on the element lead, the IEC male connectors have a shroud over the pins which makes it appear like a female, and the female connector fits inside the male connector(a product of womens lib gone mad?). The additional lead you use is a standard male to IEC female - all good

You're right, Frothie - It's not an element from KK, but it looks the same - I forgot the part where I ended up grabbing my old bass amp's lead instead of the male-to-male. Baby induced sleep deprivation at its finest!

My hospital story is completely non-fiction though

Mind you, while you're at it, can you tell me whether heat build up at the lead joins is of any concern? Cheers

 

[JaseH]

The lead on mine gets quite warm, its from internal resistance in the lead. I have a heap of IEC power leads at work so I just grabbed the thickest one I could find and its a bit better, but still gets warm. If your concerned I'd make your own lead up with some thicker power cable and a female IEC lead connector from Jaycar. I'm about to do this for mine to tidy things up a bit and make it a bit safer.

Someone with some real knowledge may know for sure, but you may get slightly better performance from your element with a thicker lead as you will have lower losses through your lead?

 

[iralosavic]

Thanks, Frothie. Will keep your suggestion in mind if it gets hot rather than just warm.

NickD: not meaning to stir the pot, but floating a 15cm tin in my keggle increased total heating power from 96c to 100c. Regardless of how you interpret the visual vigor of the boil, there is clearly a stronger actual boil resulting from less loss to open surface area. Solves my problem without the need for screwing around.