Do you prefer to ferment saisons at ambient temps?

[philmud]

It's saison weather, and I've got a saison fermenting, so I've been thinking about the merits or otherwise of ambient temperature fermentation. If you ferment saisons at ambient, why? Lack of temp control? Doesn't tie up your fridge? Prefer the results? The best saison I ever made was ambient, but I didn't have a brew fridge at that stage.
On one hand, it seems that temp control is clearly superior, assuming you have a heater of some kind - you can replicate "saison weather" emperatures, or keep things cooler if you choose. On the other hand, letting the weather decide is a cool way of producing a unique beer. Thoughts?

Edit: mine's in my fridge @ 20C with plans to up it over the next week or so.

 

[TimT]

I don't use a fridge. For one thing, not enough space and for another, I like keeping things simple.

Got a new plum mead sitting in a tub of water at the moment - that'll keep it coolish in the Melbourne weather. A week-old saison beside it doing a very slow secondary ferment.

I'm doing a batch of saisons this summer with the weather in mind, keeping an eye on the Bureau of Meteorology for good spots of time for brewing - so, a previous apricot/Amarillo saison was brewed on a day of relatively mild, 20 degree temps. It's in bottles now, maturing, but I think it tastes all right.

I guess that yeast, being a natural thing, is to a certain extent able to adapt to whatever temps are. I try and give it a happy environment - put it in a room that's not going to get too hot, etc - but apart from that, I just let it get on with its job. Seems to work all right.

 

[manticle]

To me saisons have always been set and forget. I only started using a controlled fridge a couple of years ago (or less). Prior to that it was water tubs, ice bricks and seasonal brewing with saisons the only beer I felt I could get away with ion the summer.

Having said that, I prefer to keep my french saison (3711) cooler than my Belgian and now I have a temp controller for my fridge, I set it at 24 for the one I have going at the moment. I have a Belgian and a farmhouse planned (same grist and hops, different yeasts) and they will probably be ambient if I don't get to it too late. Main reason is my fridge will be at 4-10 for a couple of weeks for the lager I brewed today.

Tim: yeast will work fine at high temps but it's not about them adapting or surviving - it's about controlling the flavours they throw. High temps for most brewing yeasts will result in excess esters and headache creating fusels and aldehydes (which also contribute to staling).

Anyway to summarise - I have and would again, fermented saisons at ambient in summer, caveat being I would always start the ferment lower (maye 17) and let it rise to whatever outside hotness is.

 

[Lecterfan]

I don't care which yeast or style I'm brewing, I find that consistent temps is the main thing. Brewing ambient in Ballarat might mean 35c for 8 hours of the day and 7c for the other 16 hours. I don't care how ferocious and resilient a yeast is, that knocks it about. I aim to have a good, solid, clean ferment done in any ale within 7 days…allowing the wort to vary (given that 22 odd L of wort won't just drop or rise in the blink of an eye)up to 3-4c variation is a great way to mess with the yeast and mess up attenuation rates. I'm drunk, and that is my take on it. There is a romance to ambient brewing that is nought more than a fanciful idea. Brewers of old would have killed to have the control we have now. And I am all for the aesthetics of dwelling with the earth…I just don't kid myself that it makes the best possible beer. Even a dead fridge is better than no fridge. Or something.

 

[TimT]

Fair point Manticle. My original plan was not to brew this summer - just stock take and get ready for next brew season, during the Melbourne autumn, winter and spring.

For some reason that never happened...

However, brewing with a high temp saison yeast would seem to be a good choice in summer weather. I'm doing what I can within reason to keep the brews cool.

 

[Black Devil Dog]

I've only ever brewed Saisons at ambient.

I try to time them so that they won't be fermenting during an extreme hot period and also, fortunately in SEQ we rarely have big temperature fluctuations over short periods, so ambient works ok for me.

 

[Batz]

I've only ever brewed Saisons at ambient.

I try to time them so that they won't be fermenting during an extreme hot period and also, fortunately in SEQ we rarely have big temperature fluctuations over short periods, so ambient works ok for me.

I'm brewing one tomorrow morning, it's going to be to first brew I have fermented at ambient for at least 10 years. Also in SEQ.

Batz

 

[givemeamash]

Made Tonys bullshead saison last month and was a little wary of all the reviews as they all just raved about it and I thought it was too good to be true. It was the best beer I have brewed yet and when the leg blew last night I shed a tear, luckily I already have brewed it again and after a few days cc it will be back!!!! Ferment at room temp with a blanket on it. I live in Brisbane so that is hot. It was in the shed so would have been some change of temp at night but the idea of blanket was to try and minimise this, anyway, worked a treat for me (wyeast belg saison yeast).

 

[philmud]

I don't care which yeast or style I'm brewing, I find that consistent temps is the main thing. Brewing ambient in Ballarat might mean 35c for 8 hours of the day and 7c for the other 16 hours. I don't care how ferocious and resilient a yeast is, that knocks it about...

Brewers of old would have killed to have the control we have now.

That's why I've got mine in the fridge, and yet it's undeniable that fermenting saisons at ambient during Aussie summers produces some cracking beers. Whether these beers would be better with temperature control or not I don't know, but it's probable that each ferment has subtle differences because the temperature schedule is unique. It's not necessarily about communing with nature, but perhaps about gambling on the weather.


My first 2 AG beers were saisons because of how well saison yeasts (3711 in my case) handle warmer temperatures.

I probably sound like I'm on the ambient side of the fence, and I'm not - I suspect my beer would be fine and interesting if I switched off the fridge and opened the door, but I'm not sure it's be any better.

Interesting reading people's thoughts on it...

 

[Yeastfridge]

I've never fermented in a fridge. I like the idea of seasonal ambient brewing and will probably keep doing it a while longer before sorting out a fridge. That said, I've made a lot of beer that I would have loved to raise or lower the temperature just a couple of degrees either way.
I'm sure it's been answered before so shoot me down if you like but I'm enjoying a beer right now so am not going to search, how much money do you think you spend on powering your brewing fridge? If I had one I think I'd have it on every day of the year. I'd have to sort something out with my housemates, more beer for them I guess.

 

[philmud]

It's important to consider that you're not running it at fridge temps. If you're brewing ales, you're fermenting around 17-20c and even lagers are much warmer than the temperature you keep your milk at. So basically your fridge kicks in less frequently and for shorter periods. During winter, the fridge doesn't really kick in at all, my heat belt does the work (and draws **** all power). Cold crashing is a bit different because it works the fridge hard, but that's for maybe 4 days every 4-6 weeks.

As a dollar figure I have to admit though, I have no idea

 

[timmi9191]

Use fermentation fridge with heater and stc1000 for everything but saisons.

Wait for ambient of 30+ predicted for at least 4 consecutive days and away it goes. Place fermenter in large esky full of water to minimise temp fluctuations..

 

[Lecterfan]

In Ballarat my fridge never actually acts as a fridge. The heat pad in it kicks in now and again. Ambient brewing is wonderful, I did it for many, many years…bottling also has a certain old school vibe and romance…and then you buy kegs. I'm not for or against, just saying that for me I want consistency and predictable yeast behaviour and I can't get that with ambient…not with all the towels and water baths and grape-fed luxuries I can muster. Saisons, I will admit, are slightly different - especially the beast that is 3711.

 

[TimT]

That said, I've made a lot of beer that I would have loved to raise or lower the temperature just a couple of degrees either way.

Yeastfridge, there's often more than enough temperature variation in and around a house. Bathroom and shower recesses are often the coolest place - tiles don't store heat and the frequent running of water disperses heat. Pantries are deliberately designed to be cool - though can for short periods of time in summer become heat boxes. Fermenters can be placed in tubs of water that tend to lose heat quickly; icecubes can be dunked in the same tub to make them colder. Wet towels have a similar effect. If you want to raise the temp, a room that gets a lot of sun should do it. Raise the temp even more by closing the door on the same room while it has the sun. So long as the beer avoids direct light (like a vampire!) it should be fine. (Like so many of my naive, poorly-educated statements I stand to be corrected on this (seems to work for me but)). Again you can use warm towels at night.

In short - there's plenty of tricks you can do to raise or lower the temp by a few degrees.

 

[Batz]

We are talking Saisons here, there's a big difference.

 

[TidalPete]

My very old fermenting fridge died on Boxing Day & took along with it my faithful Dixell temp controller (Posted somewhere on another thread) & so I am just tasting my first homebrewed Saison (Fermented on the workbench) whilst getting everything back to scratch.
Lots of room for improvement in my Saison recipe I'm sure but that Belle Saison dry yeast is a good start. :super:
New Westinghouse all-fridge fermentation fridge is geared up for better air circulation (Thanks QldKev) & includes a heat pad so I can do Saisons or anything else I feel like brewing whenever I want in conjunction with my newly boxed-up TempMate.
WhooHoo! I'm happy.

 

[mje1980]

I temp control everything I brew, except saison. I start mine at 25, give it 24 hours then the heat belt comes out and I keep it at 30-35 strain dependant. In the last few months I've done this with belle saison, wy3725,3711 and 3724. Great results from all. They are freaky yeast strains, they aren't your average yeast

 

[Batz]

My saison's on the boil now, first hop addition done. I'm looking forward to this. Using wy3726

Batz

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Brewed mine at Tassie Hot Water System temps in September (so guessed about 21 degrees - I don't get esters from US05 but a wee bit from S04, and tons of bubblegum from T58), using Belle Saison.

Went on holiday in October and ignored it until last week, when I bottled it (my Rajadom for a kegging system!). Tastes pretty good out of the fermenter, dry, muted phenols. And dead clear.

I know Ross' opinion was that at Bacchus he preferred it at the low 20's, and didn't feel Belle Saison added much at higher temps, and threw flavours he didn't really like that much.

If this works out, I pretty well have a year round yeast for Tassie, as I can always keep an early 20's temp in my house somewhere.

 

[Lecterfan]

mje - surely keeping it at 30-35c with an etc controlled heat belt still counts as temp control? I don't want to be a cranky pants about all this - yes saisons are different in some respects, but they aren't bullet proof…I've tasted under-attenuated saisons and I know from personal experience in colder climes that ALL yeasts suffer from fluctuations - it only takes a drop of a few degrees one night after the first 2-3 days of vigorous fermentation and you can be left with uninterested, lethargic yeast. But whatevz, enjoy yourselves, just wanted to offer a counter point :icon_cheers: