Do I Have To Chill An Apa With Late Hop Additions ?

[Pumpy]

Do I have to chill an APA with late hop additions

or is it Ok to NCC

I am getting conflicting information

Perhaps there has been a post on this but cant find it


Pumpy :unsure:

 

[peas_and_corn]

If I have a late hop addition (especially a flameout addition) I put it in the no-chill cube instead of the kettle.

 

[Ronin]

Do I have to chill an APA with late hop additions

or is it Ok to NCC

I am getting conflicting information

Perhaps there has been a post on this but cant find it


Pumpy :unsure:

I think you're getting conflicting information because there's conflicting opinions. :lol:

IIRC there was some discussion about this recently when an american asked about no chilling.

I've no chilled a all amarillo APA and have had no problems with hop aroma. That being said I didn't have a control, so if I had've chilled it I may've ended up with more aroma still. The next one I do the aroma hops are going into the cube though, to see if it makes a difference.

I think it's fine though,

James

 

[Bribie G]

I've recently made an American Amber No Chill for a comp and had bets both ways. I did late hop additions in the kettle but also dry hopped with pellets after four days then did a strong hop tea made with flowers two days before bottling. The hop aroma hits you when you open the bottle and the other layers of hoppiness develop, leading to a long bitter finish. No complaints.

 

[mesa]

Hi Pumpy,
I've been wondering similar things myself with a view to retiring the old immersion chiller to save a bit of time on brew day. I don't really have an answer or any observations of my own to offer, but my summary of the points peopled make (and they are all conflicting) is:

Late hop additions will add IBUs if no chilled
But if its already very bitter you probably won't notice. (what IBU are you aiming for anyway?)

Hops in the hot cube *to me* don't seem like they would be very different from putting them in the kettle (assuming you go from kettle to cube soon after flameout),
But it might trap a bit more aroma

Hop tea will add more aroma using less hops
But it might impart grassy hop flavours. (What hop variety are you using for late additions?)
You could use it at the begining or the end of the ferment, presumably with different results.
Would a hop tea at the begining of the ferment impart similar flavours to late additions followed by chilling? I've got no idea.

I guess there is only one way to know. Suck it and see.

 

[Cortez The Killer]

My aroma additions go into the cube

Plenty of hop aroma

I remember someone making a bittering addition and then everything else going into the cube with great success (PoMo???)

Cheers

 

[Ronin]

Late hop additions will add IBUs if no chilled
But if its already very bitter you probably won't notice. (what IBU are you aiming for anyway?)

I never notice with my weizens or helles either. I've made very lightly hopped beers (I normally add a small flameout addition even with these styles) and have never had them be bitter at all.

I'll agree that it probably adds some IBUs to the finished beer simply because of the increased isomerisation time, but it definately doesn't have a noticeable effect.

James

 

[buttersd70]

side by side chill/no chill experiment with an APA here.

 

[mje1980]

Well, im drinking a "No chill" APA that had late hops, with no cube hops, and the aroma and flavour is fantastic. Lovely.

Cheers

 

[jonw]

I'm drinking a hopburst APA that was no chilled. All additions in last 30mins, in fairly equal amounts every five minutes, with an addition in the whirlpool (but no hop matter in the cube.) Great hop flavour, pretty good hop aroma. Having said that, I don't have a chiller, so can't give you an objective comparison.

Cheers,

Jon

 

[Pumpy]

Hi Pumpy,
I've been wondering similar things myself with a view to retiring the old immersion chiller to save a bit of time on brew day. I don't really have an answer or any observations of my own to offer, but my summary of the points peopled make (and they are all conflicting) is:

Late hop additions will add IBUs if no chilled
But if its already very bitter you probably won't notice. (what IBU are you aiming for anyway?)

Hops in the hot cube *to me* don't seem like they would be very different from putting them in the kettle (assuming you go from kettle to cube soon after flameout),
But it might trap a bit more aroma

Hop tea will add more aroma using less hops
But it might impart grassy hop flavours. (What hop variety are you using for late additions?)
You could use it at the begining or the end of the ferment, presumably with different results.
Would a hop tea at the begining of the ferment impart similar flavours to late additions followed by chilling? I've got no idea.

I guess there is only one way to know. Suck it and see.

Mesa ,

It s this recipe by Kabooby 35 IBU
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...&recipe=704

Sounds like the general concensus is NCC is OK

But there is some good information here

Pumpy

 

[kabooby]

I have played around a bit with large late hop additions and have found you get the best aroma from dry hopping. I am not saying don't late hop, but dry hopping will get you extra aroma and flavour.

Even if you chill your wort with flameout additions, the hops do not get a long contact time with the wort.

Kabooby

 

[matti]

The last APA I did which I brought when jayandcath was down at your place was no chilled with late hops going into the cube.
I also dry hopped it with with Amarillo + Cascade of memory about 1/2 a handful each.
I guestimated about 35+ IBU plus dry hopping around 2g/Litre in secondary for a week.

Another American Ale

Min OG: 1.048 Max OG: 1.054
Min IBU: 30 Max IBU: 45
Min Clr: 10 Max Clr: 14 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 20.00 Wort Size (L): 20.00
Total Grain (kg): 4.60
Anticipated OG: 1.055 Plato: 13.48
Anticipated SRM: 6.6
Anticipated IBU: 38.3
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 23.53 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.046 SG 11.53 Plato



Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Extract SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
54.3 2.50 kg. Weyermann Pilsner Germany 1.030 2
21.7 1.00 kg. Munich Malt Australia 1.012 6
21.7 1.00 kg. Pale Malt(2-row) Great Britain 1.012 3
2.2 0.10 kg. JWM Crystal 140 Australia 1.001 74

Extract represented as SG.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
15.00 g. Perle Pellet 6.30 15.2 60 min.
28.35 g. Willamette Pellet 6.00 20.8 40 min.
12.00 g. Willamette Pellet 6.00 2.3 10 min.
10.00 g. Cascade Pellet 5.75 0.0 0 min.


Yeast
-----
S-05

I recall it ended up being a 30 litre batch with some more JWM going in.
How much i didn't write down....

 

[katzke]

I think in the argument some are forgetting the basics behind hop utilization.

When calculating the bitterness added by hops you need to consider the AA content of the hops. Most hops used for late additions are not the high AA hops used for bittering. The resulting contribution will be low with such hops. The comparison made in the other thread did not give what hops were added as I recall. To be safe I would add the hops to the cube if they were high AA and do a normal late addition if they were low AA hops.

As to what the impact to flavor or aroma I have no idea. There is still a raging debate on first wort hopping and mash hopping. If brewers can not agree on that then I just add No-Chill to the mystery.

What it comes down to is if you think you can tell any difference in the flavor then do what you like best.

 

[mje1980]

There is still a raging debate on first wort hopping and mash hopping. If brewers can not agree on that then I just add No-Chill to the mystery.


There are many techniques/methods in brewing that bring up endless debate. Personally if it works for you, then it works!!!. Does anyone else here get annoyed when people try to tell you the way you're doing things is wrong?? for example, FWH calculations, HSA, No Chill ( watch the botulism!! ).

Sorry, had to rant. Been reading a lot of "No, that way is wrong. this is right" lately. Some guys like blondes, some like brunettes, some even like fanta pants, each to their own.

 

[buttersd70]

The comparison made in the other thread did not give what hops were added as I recall. To be safe I would add the hops to the cube if they were high AA and do a normal late addition if they were low AA hops.

Not directly, however it was said

It was based on Back Yard Brewers Simcoe APA. Scaled down to 22L.
After the 10 min addition, waited 10 mins, drew off 11L and then added the 5 & o mins at flameout (but only half the hops as 11L were drawn off already) as per usual to the wort.
I also used 1272 American Ale II.

So the only real mod is that I didnt have a 5 min addition, a slightly bigger flameout addition.

Sorry I cant you give you my AA, (I'm away with work til Saturday) but I assume they'd be pretty close to BYB's.
Let me know if you need exact AA and I'll provide on Sunday or Monday.
mckenry

Recipe for the original 38L batch is here.

 

[katzke]

Not directly, however it was said



Recipe for the original 38L batch is here.

So it was Cascade and that is a low alpha hop. I doubt either way there was enough contribution to bitterness to be noticeable.

 

[buttersd70]

So it was Cascade and that is a low alpha hop. I doubt either way there was enough contribution to bitterness to be noticeable.

cascade and amarillo. I would consider both to be medium alpha.

 

[katzke]

cascade and amarillo. I would consider both to be medium alpha.

I guess it depends on what side of the lake you are on. Cascade is someplace around 6 AA and we get in the upper teens with some of our bitter hops. The European hops are like 3 or 4 AA.

On my list Cascade is considered an aroma hop. But that is American Cascade

Bittering would be for a harsh hop Columbus, Chinook, Galena, New Zealand Pacific Gem, and Millenium. For a clean hop Bravo, Horizon, Newport, New Zealand Super alpha, Green Bullet, Nugget, Magnum, and Warrior.

Duel purpose hops would be Ahtanum, Amarillo, New Zealand Cascade, Centennial, Cluster, Northern Brewer, and Perle.