Decoction Question

[bonk]

from my understanding of the 'ol decoction is that the mash out step is done with more wort, less grains, that way your not bursting the grain, just heating it up to mash out temps without having to infuse with more water (for those with limited mash tuns).

and yep as others have pointed out, use some form of software to help figure out how much to remove.

decoction is also helpful if you have missed your step temp - do a small decoction to achieve the right temp .. done that a few times

 

[Trough Lolly]

Those steps look very similar to the articles on decoction mashing by Dr Fix and Noonan - I will have a go at it soon, for the fun of it, not because the grains have to be decocted.

If anyone wants to have a look at some intro threads on Decoction Mashing, and Jayse and the others have covered most of it, here are some starters on HBD and elsewhere :

http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/2410.html#2410-1
http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/3186.html#3186-25
and
http://new.craftbrewer.org/Library/Methods.../GSDecoct.shtml
http://brewery.org/library/DecoctFAQ.html
http://www.strandbrewers.org/techinfo/decoct1.htm
http://www.higgybeer.com/images/babble_decoction.htm
http://howtobrew.com/section3/chapter16-4.html
Cheers,
TL

 

[Gulf Brewery]

from my understanding of the 'ol decoction is that the mash out step is done with more wort, less grains, that way your not bursting the grain, just heating it up to mash out temps

Hi TL

This is from Noonan's NBLB

"Regardless of the diastatic power of the malt, unconverted starch is invariably entrapped within poorly solubilized malt particles. As the decoction is heated above 167 degrees F (75 degrees C), the particles burst, and their contents are absorbed into the liquid extract. This makes them accessible to alpha-amylase activity during the diastatic-cnzyme rest of the main mash"

This is sorta what I was trying to say before, but I wasn't near my books.

Cheers
Pedro

 

[nonicman]

Trough Lolly, Excellent links.
I now see the value in the using the decoration step early rather than late, that the starch is released by the boiling and adding back in gives the enymes time to work on all the released starch. Leaving the decoration till last could, I stress could because I've never tried, release starch that the enymes don't get a chance to convert to maltose. My understanding is that residual starch is not good.
I'v just taken delivery of 12.5 kg each of cracked TF torrified wheat, JW Trad Ale, JW Wheat Malt WLP 0400, Belgium Wit yeast.
So was considering a decoration step early mainly with the torrified wheat. Haven't found any info on whether using the torrified wheat is a good idea for the decoration, any ideas? Hope I'm not on the wrong track :blink:

Edit, will do a double brew day, and do one decoration per mash, one late and one early.

 

[Jovial_Monk]

Hmmm Pedro, I was more thinking of the increased maltiness etc a decoction gives, suggesting a way brewers could try a decoction without hugely increasing the brewday

JM

 

[Gulf Brewery]

Hmmm JM

So how is a late decoction going to improve the maltiness?
Would love to see some real life references to this B)

Cheers
Pedro

 

[nonicman]

Just left the Wit mash for it's final rest. Decided to do a double decoction with only one brew, does add to the brew time. With the boils the colour change is awesome.

The wort flowing from the mash tun is very pale, the colour of the decoction boils doesn't seem to effect the beer colour

 

[nonicman]

here are a couple of pictures of the decoction mash, the first is of the grain after a twenty minute rest at 50C. After bringing the first decoction batch up to 70C for a 30 minute rest, it was boiled for 15 minutes and returned to the main mash, stepping the temp to 64C for 30 minutes. The second photo is during the transfer of the grain back to the main mash after the second decoction boil of 15 minutes to bring the main mash up to 72C, left to rest for an hour, then batch sparged by mixing in the sparge water for 1 running (after recycling around 2 litres of the initual run off), an attempt to use the same method Jase and Doc posted a few weeks ago.

The efficiency jumped from 70% (last two mashes) to 77%.

 

[nonicman]

and the post boil pic... I will use a single decoction for a stout this morning, the reasoning being that I have only base malts and roasted barley, so I'm guessing that a 30 minutes decoction boil will give a wider malt profile, than a straight infusion mash. For the single decoction I will follow Jayse and Pedro's advice and go early.