Dark Munich smash

[Hangover68]

So i have 5kg of dark munich 100g of hallertau pellets and saflager 34/70 to make my first all grain and first smash brew, i cant find a definitive guide on hop addition ie amount and timing.
Is 100g on par for 5kg of grain, would a 50/50 hop addition work - mid mash and at the end ?

 

[MHB]

Dark Munich is rarely used on its own, it is a base malt (just) which means it has enough enzymes to convert itself.
It tends to make beer that is fairly dark, and sweet in this case pretty much Amber coloured.
You haven't supplied much in the way of information, like batch size, method, equipment... If we make a couple of assumptions like you are doing an all in no sparge BIAB to make a 23L batch.
I would be doing a cooler mash than usual, say 62-63oC and probably for 90 minutes rather than the 60 most people do (attempt to get more fermentable wort).
After you separate the grain from the sweet wort, and bring the wort to a boil (let it boil until it stops foaming and settles down) if you added your 100g of Hallertau (given that the AA% is around 4%) and boiled for an hour your bitterness would be around 35 IBU probably not too far off what you want for a very full bodied Lager.

I hope you meant you were adding hops to the boil, not the mash. Very different outcomes if you did.
Be a good idea to run through a bit more on what you have in mind, Info is king!
Mark

 

[Hangover68]

Sorry yes BIAB 23ltr and no sparge my terminology is not up there yet, i will be cubing it then fermenting once my current brew is ready for bottling.

 

[Jack of all biers]

I would do as MHB suggests re mashing, however I disagree re chucking in the whole 100gm. 35-40 IBU is way too much for a Munich Dunkel and I've found even high 20's puts the beer out of 'balance' for the 'style'. Depending on the alpha acid content of your Hallertau, somewhere between 50gm and 75gm at the start of a 60 min boil. If you are after something more authentic to the 'style' that is. Malt forward, very restrained hop bitterness with almost no hop flavour/aroma. 100% Munich dark or Munich II is fine for the 'style' and will do you well at the lower mashing temp. The only thing to not do with dark munich is decoction unless you know what you are doing, but I don't think that was on your mind, so I will keep quiet about that unless asked.

 

[MHB]

Your probably right, I suspect the beer will wind up a bit darker and sweeter than a typical Munich Dunkel, the style guide says 18-28 IBU, but I think an all Munich2 beer is going to need a bit more bitterness. The 35IBU I calculated was pretty much top end for what you would get in a 90 minute boil, I suspect he wont do quite that well, so we probably aren't too far apart.
Probably a case of personal taste, be easy enough to wind the bitterness back a bit if you were so inclined.
Mark

 

[Hangover68]

Thanks for your help/suggestions, i would prefer to keep it on style for my first all grain brew so i have a base to go by.
Was going to kick this off yesterday but i found my fermenter broken so will be using a 25ltr cube for now.

 

[Jack of all biers]

You'll be on style with what you have. Here's a link to well respected member of the homebrewing community with a very similar recipe to what you propose. It may give you some insight/cofindence.

 

[Hangover68]

Put this down yesterday arvo and all went mostly to plan, first time using my electrified brew pot and i was quite happy with how it performed. I cut down an old car sun shade and taped it reflective side in to help keep the mash temp and it worked better than expected, also surprised how much sediment the bag keeps out of the wort.
I transferred from pot to cube and left cool overnight and this morning transferred to the fermenting cube which i didnt really need to do since there was little sediment, pre yeast pitch the OG is 1.050 which from my calculations is on target for my ingredients.
Currently in the brew fridge set at @12c.
I did the 90min mash as suggested and used 50g of hops, flavour is good so will see what its like pre bottling time.

 

[Hangover68]

So i tested SG after 7 days and got a reading of 1.040, another test last thursday and its 1.030, increased temp to 17c and checked today and its back up to 1.040 WTF ? I checked the hydrometer in tap water and its bang on 0 so don't know whats going on there, still tastes quite sweet so i assume there are still sugars to ferment.

 

[clickeral]

So i tested SG after 7 days and got a reading of 1.040, another test last thursday and its 1.030, increased temp to 17c and checked today and its back up to 1.040 WTF ? I checked the hydrometer in tap water and its bang on 0 so don't know whats going on there, still tastes quite sweet so i assume there are still sugars to ferment.

You need adjust your hydrometer results for temp correction

From memory they are calibrated at 20C you can find calculators online that will adjust for temp

https://www.brewersfriend.com/hydrometer-temp/

Your hydometer could also be stuck on the side etc, was the water you checked it in at 20C?

Also allow for parallax when reading it

 

[Hangover68]

You need adjust your hydrometer results for temp correction

From memory they are calibrated at 20C you can find calculators online that will adjust for temp

https://www.brewersfriend.com/hydrometer-temp/

Your hydometer could also be stuck on the side etc, was the water you checked it in at 20C?

Also allow for parallax when reading it

I used the calculator and got the same readings, cold water straight out of the tap.
I move it around so it doesn't stick to the side and i clear any foam/bubbles so i can read it.

 

[Jack of all biers]

How many packs of W34/70 did you pitch? After two weeks, even one pack should be finished (though the flavour of one pack would not be the best). Did it show signs of fermentation? (eg pressure, bubbling, condensation, krausen visible?). Not sure why your hydrometer would go down then up? Have you tested it against a known 1.040 solution? 100ml water and 10gm DME will give you 1.038 for example.

 

[Hangover68]

1 pack of yeast as my reading said one is enough for a medium ABV, plenty of bubbling right up until about Wednesday which is 11 days @ 12c, i dont have any DME or anything else but since its zero in plain water i have no reason to doubt it.

 

[MHB]

Better off just using white sugar anyway. Both the Plato (oP) and Specific Gravity (S.G.) scales are worked out on sucrose.
Household white sugar is about 99.999% pure doesn't absorb moisture out of the air... its the best option.
Depending on the accuracy of your scales (the accuracy of the solution you make will depend on the scales).
100g of sugar and 900g of water will give you a 10oP solution (Plato is % W.W. (weight/weight))
Roughly S.G. = (4*oP)/1000+1, so 10oP is about 1.040 (not exactly, the exact conversion is a third order polynormal, but probably more accurate a conversion than either the scales or hydrometer).

Agree on the yeast, two packets would have been a better option, Lager always wants 1.2 to 2 times the yeast you would use in an equivalent Ale. Especially if you are pitching cold, and the colder the more you need.
Mark

Edit
If you want to get really picky.
Plato=(135.997*SG^3)-(630.272*SG^2)+(1111.14*SG)-616.866​

 

[Hangover68]

I pitched at 23 then dropped to 12, should i ramp it up ? currently on 17, tested again and its reading 1.030.

 

[Hangover68]

So i pitched another pack of yeast just over a week ago with 500g of DME and fermentation kicked off again, rested the SG a few days later and again today and it hasnt moved from 1.034. I think i need to cut my losses and possibly split this into 2 batches using either a couple of kit tins or i do have 5kg of Vienna malt i could use ?
Pretty sure i made 2 major mistakes of under pitching and mash temps being off, i'll put it down to rookie errors.

 

[MaggieO]

You are using a hydrometer and not a refractometer, right?

 

[Hangover68]

You are using a hydrometer and not a refractometer, right?

Correct, and adjusted for temp difference.

 

[rizrah]

a practice i have started using is to de-gas my sample before taking hydrometer readings, by pouring the sample back and forth between 2 glasses at least 10 times. this will expel any residual co2 from the beer sample, giving a true hydrometer reading.

 

[Hangover68]

a practice i have started using is to de-gas my sample before taking hydrometer readings, by pouring the sample back and forth between 2 glasses at least 10 times. this will expel any residual co2 from the beer sample, giving a true hydrometer reading.

ive taken that many readings and all are the same so its not the reading process, wort still tastes sweet so i can only assume i still have a lot of unfermentable sugars.