Dark Beers And Adverese Effects

[Hefty]

G'day all,
Over the past 6 months to a year I've done more dark brews than I used to as well as drinking more darker commercial beers and I seem to have noticed that I get more headaches during a session (maybe from dehydration?) as well as more hangover-like symptoms the next day when drinking darker beers, whereas on a session of similar strength lighter coloured beers I've come up fine. I don't generally get full-blown hangovers but the symptoms are just enough to be annoying and make getting things done the morning after difficult.

Has anyone had a similar experience? I tried to search for this but couldn't seem to find the right keywords to get any results.
Is there anything about darker beers/grain bills that can have these kind of effects? And if so, does anyone know how to counter this? I'm starting to enjoy quite a range of darker beers and would like to keep drinking them without the adverse effects.
Anyone?

HABAHAGD! :icon_cheers:
Jono.

 

[J Grimmer]

Hey Jono,

i too love a dark beer and anything on the edge of dark, i don't suffer from hangovers but really bad gas, i have found if i have 1 or 2, im okay, Have any dark beer as a session beer im in a world of hurt. I have read it could be due to a maltose intolerance but not 100% sure. On a side note i have noticed i don't get hangovers when I drink homebrew, but drink the same quantity of commercial beer and again im in a world of hurt again.

Hope that helps.

Jan.

 

[haysie]

Acetaldehyde= bad hangovers/toxic. I hate it but struggle to pick it up, especially after having a couple. Apart from the obvious alcoholic fusels that will make one a little seedy, I find green apples a "silent killer"

 

[DUANNE]

Well generally most dark styles of beer have a higher ABV

such as dry stout,dark mild,brown ale or maybe schwarzbier? the colour of a beer has nothing to do with alc content. very bad generalisation imo.

 

[haysie]

Yeah but I have never smelt that in dark brews, generally for me atleast I can smell it in commercial swill.

Are you saying acetaldehyde cant be produced in dark beers? It sure can be. Some brewers even manipulate the yeast to produce PPM`s of that hangover stuff.

 

[mje1980]

such as dry stout,dark mild,brown ale or maybe schwarzbier? the colour of a beer has nothing to do with alc content. very bad generalisation imo.

Yep, colour has no bearing on alc%

 

[Lecterfan]

My friend says that dark beers produce more reflux in him. While I am able to concede that he often will have reflux after drinking dark beers with me, there are many other variables that come in to play. I have another friend (hard to believe, I kow) who claims to only get hangovers from certain brands of beer. I am sure he DOES experience the hangovers, but I am not entirely convinced that either of them have taken all other variables into account, and it is easy to blame the first thing you taste when you burp in the morning.

No offence to OP, but I think sometimes we (humans) are entirely willing and able to attribute X to Y due to a certain sequence of events without actually questioning the cause and effect concept that we have applied. Post hoc ergo propter hoc anyone?

HOWEVER, I am willing to concede that different malts may well induce different physiological responses in people. My mate who has reflux did manage to narrow it down mostly to Tooheys old...but again that was because when he was with me we used to split a slab between us and eat junk food....so um not sure that there is only ONE factor to blame there. :icon_drunk:

What we need is one of the more chemistry oriented guys to set us on the path towards empirical wisdom and away from anecdotal musings...anyone? Anyone? Bueller?


edit: fer spellin' and such

 

[Newbiebrewer]

such as dry stout,dark mild,brown ale or maybe schwarzbier? the colour of a beer has nothing to do with alc content. very bad generalisation imo.

Sigh just ignore my post, my brain was in neutral.

 

[pk.sax]

It might be just me then, but belgians send me to happyland, except wits, not wits, wits are spicy and keep me up all night

 

[jimi]

I'm pretty sure I recall a episode of 'what's good for you' and their findings were quite the opposite (albeit spirits) - they gave some scienctific explanation why 'dark spirits' produced less hang over than clear/lighter coloured spirits. For the life of me I can't recall what it was though

 

[StewTurner]

Could it be due to congeners? http://www.drunkmansguide.com/articles/hangover.php

I have had a look around, but I haven't found any evidence that dark beers contain more congeners than other beers. However it seems that in general dark drinks (red wine, rum, whisky) contain more congeners than clear drinks (white wine, vodka). If that holds for beer, it could explain your hangover.

An alternative explanation is that subconsciously you are a racist.

 

[bcp]

Hangover causes:
1. DEHYDRATION: Alcohol's diaretic properties. Headaches, tiredness, bad taste.
2. ENZYMES: Our enzymes get busy processing the various alcohols (depending on your brewing success!) - and aren't available for processing glucose, etc. Symptoms - dizziness, lack of concentration

So these i think will be the same in all beers - related to alcohol content.

3. CONGENERS: An 'impurity' produced in fermentation that contribute to taste aroma & colour. These are usually distilled out of most spirits, but therefore can have higher quantities in beer. Sorry, not a chemist, someone else can give us better info. But dark beers ARE higher in congeners. They can make you feel crap (not sure that's the medical term).
"In one study, 33 percent of those who drank an amount of bourbon relative to their body weight reported severe hangover, compared to 3 percent of those who drank the same amount of vodka." (with bourbon higher in congeners).
http://health.howstuffworks.com/wellness/d...l/hangover3.htm


Other sources: several sites all on the first page of 2-3 variations on a google search. Forgot to copy them.
Edit: this isn't an exhaustive list of hangover causes, so not intended as 'the' answer... and agree that i've seen suggestions that dark beers have more congeners, butnothing definitive.

 

[O'Henry]

Big Belgians give me reflux to the extreme. So much so when friends are like 'lets try this massive quad iv'e been saving for a year', I say no, as I don't want to waste in. Appreciate the goodness of them, but something about the amount of higher alc and esters. Maybe the amount of esters produced from the higher number of fusel alc. Just hypothesis-ing here, no real evidence.

Back on topic. The darker beers my be hiding more unfriendly compounds behind the big flavours/aromas, such as acetaldehyde.

 

[bcp]

Ok, those who have formally studied this stuff will put us to rights when they get here, but a bit more searching suggests that congeners don't only contribute to colour, as it is a group. They can be associated with sweetness in some cases. http://www.scientificsocieties.org/jib/pap...04-1310-263.pdf

...but at least in this case there is a direct association with congeners: (Exciting reading hey.)

Title: Effects of Light and Dark Beers on Hepatic Cytochrome P450 Expression in Male Rats Recieving Alcoholic Beverages As Part of Total Enteral Nutrition

Interpretive Summary: Drinking has long been known to alter the metabolism of drugs and cancer causing chemicals in the liver. Animal studies, confirmed in humans, have shown that alcohol consumption increases expression and activity of a liver enzyme known as CYP2E1 which is involved in metabolism of ethanol, many solvents and nitrosamine carcinogens. However, people do not drink pure ethanol. They drink alcoholic beverages such as beer and wine. These beverages contain many other chemicals (so-called cogeners) in addition to ethanol which may also have effects on drug metabolism. Virtually all animal studies of alcohol on drug metabolism use pure ethanol and might miss effects associated with consumption of all the other things in alcoholic drinks. In the current study, we fed rats two different beers: a larger and a stout and examined effects on liver drug metabolism by cytochrome P450-dependent monooxygenase enzymes. Compared to controls fed the same amount of pure ethanol, CYP2E1 levels were the same. However, stout fed-rats expressed more CYP1A2, CYP3A and CYP4A enzymes in their livers and had higher rates of metabolism of the antibiotic erythromycin. Therefore stout contains chemicals other than ethanol which also increase expression of some drug metabolizing enzymes in the liver.

...Therefore stout contains congeners which are inducers of cytochrome P450s other than CYP2E1
http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/publications/publications.htm?seq_no_115=140178

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

When I was on Holiday in Lithuania earlier this year I noticed most people drank light colour beer. I asked why and was told that dark beer was bad for you. I wasnt given a reason just an answer. They will also drive along in the car with only one window partly open, I asked why again "to stop some thing (?) in the air blowing into the car", no explanation what that bad thing was but they got annoyed when kept trying to open the window.
Personally to many dark beers gives me heart burn.
GB

 

[Rudy]

G'day all,
Over the past 6 months to a year I've done more dark brews than I used to as well as drinking more darker commercial beers and I seem to have noticed that I get more headaches during a session (maybe from dehydration?) as well as more hangover-like symptoms the next day when drinking darker beers, whereas on a session of similar strength lighter coloured beers I've come up fine. I don't generally get full-blown hangovers but the symptoms are just enough to be annoying and make getting things done the morning after difficult.

Has anyone had a similar experience? I tried to search for this but couldn't seem to find the right keywords to get any results.
Is there anything about darker beers/grain bills that can have these kind of effects? And if so, does anyone know how to counter this? I'm starting to enjoy quite a range of darker beers and would like to keep drinking them without the adverse effects.
Anyone?

HABAHAGD! :icon_cheers:
Jono.

I too enjoy dark beers and I definitely feel worse after drinking them. I have noticed this with home brew or commercial beer. If I drink stout all night I will feel rotten then next day. Even after a few I will feel it. I too looked around online but couldn't much on it. So you are not the only one!

 

[manticle]

Preservative laden drinks tend to give me rotten hangovers. Presrvative free drinks generally don't with the exception of scotch whisky.

Lack of sleep mixed with lack of food also contribute.

Last night I drank preservative free beers for several hours, ranging from trumer pils to rochefort 8, Mountain goat double hightail to rodenbach grand cru, ate some pizza and went to bed at 2 to wake up at 7.30.

None of the squashed head that I would have had going to bed after a bottle of red or some sulphited cider at 12 am. Bit tired this morning but nothing a toastie and coffee at 10 am couldn't fix.

Rough guess - different people react differently to different things but for me, colour of beer has no bearing on next day effects.

 

[Hefty]

Wow, what a wealth of responses! Thanks people!
I know hangovers are often caused by dehydration etc and a few people pointed to that but my main point was that the colour seemed to be the only significantly different variable in the beer itself.
Lecterfan, I totally agree though; there may be other variables, not related to the beer at all, that I may be overlooking. I haven't exactly taken note of what I've done throughout the day before each session
I'd never even thought about acetyldehyde either.
A few people mentioned gas and reflux. I know that darker grain bills can lower mash pH significantly so I guess it stands to reason that the resulting beer will have a lower pH that might contribute more to reflux etc (although pH stabilisers often put lighter beers around a similar pH anyway).
Anyone else with similar experience or some, more scientific, expertise who can comment?

HABAHAGD! :icon_cheers:
Jono.

 

[Muggus]

Acetaldehyde= bad hangovers/toxic.

Remind me not to have a big night on the sherry in that case.... :icon_vomit:

 

[BitterBulldog]

Yeah, I've noticed after a night on the white rabbit dark ales I have felt a bit rougher than usual.
I only notice because I don't generally experience many problems at after a good session
Nowhere near enough to deter me from drinking white rabbit though