Danstar Belle Saison

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vonromanz

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Hi everyone,

Does anybody have some feedback on this yeast? I made a saison with this on Saturday to try it out. Sofar, I have to say that in general I find Danstar easier to rehydrate compared with Safyeast. I'm starting to think that Danstar fires allot quicker than Safyeast. Will do a side by side batch this week using US-05 and BRY-97 (that's hoping that thy are both the Chico strain and BRY-97 is not the Anchor strain).

The yeast was pitched at 20:00 on Saturday, 20C and 1.058, and had a thick crausen by 08:00 the next day. Took a sample today, Tuesday at 10:00, and it was down to 1.006. My guess would be that it is going to stop at about 1.004.

The beer flavour itself is still a bit rough with some acetaldehyde, but relitively cleanish, escpecially compared to Wyeast 3724 and 3711. Still a long way from my final thoughts.

Hope to hear some thoughts from other brewers.

Cheers
 

rehab

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Let me know what it ends up like. Keen as to use it if it gives good results. I am a bit of a n00b still so prefer to use the dry yeast and then when I have mastered that and have some fridge space I may then look at liquid so I can wash/reuse.

Also keen to try make a Saison similar to 8 wired Sauvin
 

toolio666

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So I pitched this evening about 6pm, 2 packets, rehydrated for 20L, and now at around 10.30, I have a reasonable krausen and good airlock activity (yes I know... Don't rely on it, kittens etc).

What temperature have people been keeping this at?

Melbourne at the moment has been pretty solid above 30 degrees and this week only 2 days dropping below this.

Like to hear people's thoughts.

Cheers
 

Lurks

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Also interested in this yeast.

That said, there's a big difference between the belgian and french saison strains (wyeast). So which one is this? Eg, is it a lazy bastard that wants 30+? That doesn't sound like they bill it, so is it the super pacman french one with the boring ester profile?
 

toolio666

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Ok...

Been pretty warm in the garage and it looks like overnight it dropped to about 26 and has been up near 34 during the day.

So now from 1050 to 1.016 in about 25 hours. FG is expected to be 1.011.

Any thoughts on how quick this has been? Too hot?
If I'm going to use finings do I use these now or wait a bit? I'm going to try and fit fermenter into my spare fridge once finished to clear it a bit more and then bottle.

Any help or thoughts welcome!
 

toolio666

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Well 48 hours now and down to 1.010. Will give it another day or 2, and finings and throw it in the fridge. Bottling this weekend.

Definitely will use this yeast again for the temps it can withstand.

Need a "Saison expert" to give me some feedback though since I'm uncertain as to how it compares... Will let you all know when ready for a taste...
 

Beersuit

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It seems like a fast mover this one. Pitched 1 packet Saturday arvo at 1.048 it's been sitting on 24 in the shed and its down to 1.008 as of last night and is starting to drop out.
Nice subtle spiceness to it.
My taste buds and nose are a little shot as I picked up the man flu on Sunday. So I'll report back when I get over it later in the week. Looks promising though.
 

Lecterfan

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Toolio - I'd be wary of a proper saison yeast that is 'done' at 1.010. I know your OP says 1.050 with expected FG of 1.011, but (depending on mash etc) I would think that (tentatively) 1.008 would be closer to an FG for a saison...although of course this IS a new product so these early posts and anecdotes are really appreciated by all us saison lovers.

Also Chinamat - I disagree about the 'boring profile' of wy3711, especially after it's second re-pitch. If you push the whole farmhouse ale thing I tend to get about 5 batches from consecutive repitches from the yeast cake(s) from wy3711, and yes, brew 1 is pretty clean (compared to 3724), but after that I prefer both the flavour and aroma profile and (obviously) the sheer utility of 3711. My 4th re-pitch into a single malt grist got 109 points in vicbrew last year and was chock full of interesting yeasty goodness (one of my few examples I cling to like a tiger to a life raft).

Cheers :icon_cheers:
 

Lurks

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Lecterfan, that's interesting to know.

It's not like I think it's terrible or anything but I tasted a friend's saison, almost the same recipe as mine, but his was with 3724 and his was far more interesting.

I'm kind of surprised that pitching a large volume of yeast cake makes it more interesting. I would have thought underpitching would have resulted in more yeast character, rather than the other way around. Not that I'm doubting you or anything.

I tend not to re-pitch yeast cakes as such and do my propagation in step-up starters, saving the last starter to be washed and to go into a jar. Just because I'm monkeying with yeast at the time it seems more convenient. I actually only have a fairly small amount of WY3711 now (image), I was just going to pitch it all and move to 3724 for the next one. Based on what you're saying, maybe I should step it up to a monster starter and pitch it...

wy3711.jpg
 

Lecterfan

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Sorry - no, I'm not re-using the whole cake, I am taking a scoop (about half cup of slurry) and pitching. Then when that beer is done I take half a cup slurry etc etc.

The very act of re-pitching over and over from subsequent generations does seem to change the character slightly - I don't wash it and I don't need (therefore don't make) starters. This is possibly not best practice in the interest of consistency, but it fits the spirit of the farmhouse ale nicely.

So nothing to do with under/over pitching. I hope I've clarified that, sorry. :beerbang:
 

doon

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the amount of yeast in that jar does not look anywhere near enough, i would make a 2 liter starter. I always do regardless. I run 3711 at temps up to 38 and get awesome flavours out of it. Made one for xmas at around those temps and relos lapped it up
 

Lurks

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Lecterfan, ah fair enough! I'd do the same thing but I like the freedom of skipping a style, there's quite a few jars of various yeasts in the back of the fridge snoozing away. I don't really know anything about the generation aspect of yeast propagation. I thought it was generally a bad thing but not in this case it seems!

Doon, agree. I generally always make starters. Up to 38C, mmm maybe that's it. Didn't do it warm enough?
 

toolio666

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Lecterfan said:
Toolio - I'd be wary of a proper saison yeast that is 'done' at 1.010. I know your OP says 1.050 with expected FG of 1.011, but (depending on mash etc) I would think that (tentatively) 1.008 would be closer to an FG for a saison...although of course this IS a new product so these early posts and anecdotes are really appreciated by all us saison lovers.


Cheers :icon_cheers:
Thanks for the tip Lecterfan. Seems to have finished at 1.008. Looking at things this seems to be atenuation of 84%. Does this sound right (ballpark)?

If I'm going to repitch on a slurry, can I use finings or should I just cold crash? I've got just enough ingredients to do a half brew (10L?) and the weather looks to be staying warm.

Cheers,

Toolio666
 

Lecterfan

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Without knowing any mash details that sounds like more what you'd expect rather than your original prediction of 1.011. If you mash low and slow or step mash you can get saisons nice and low. My wy3711 beers get to 1.006 without trying and 1.004 with a step mash. I have a friend who did low and slow mash and hit 1.002 with it. My VERY limited use of 3724 has only resulted in 1.008 and 1.006 so far.

Personally I don't re-pitch onto a yeast cake, but scoop out the required amount for the next beer. I am hesitant to comment about whether to use it from a beer that has had finings added to the fermenter. If you washed the yeast it might be ok. I wouldn't do it but I am ignorant of the science and all of your variables and am not interested in being hamstrung for making some outrageous statement about something I clearly know nothing about.

If you use the google search above and look for 'saison' or 'bullshead summer saison' etc you will find hours of excellent reading material on these strange beasts. Pour a pint, get comfy and get into it haha.
 

DeGarre

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I am quite excited about this yeast, just received two packets so I will brew one saison next week - it is still snow in the ground -cold - and then another brew in the summer - late 20's hopefully - and see how this compares to my 2 previous saison brews:

1. wlp565 belgian saison I : excellent, fruity, exactly like Dupont super saison Moinette
2. wlp566 belgian saison II: not as good as wlp565, didn't have that fruitiness or Dupont tang.
 

Barry

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Good Day
I have brewed two batches of saison on 01/02/2013. Both batches were the same with OG 1.050. I pitched WLP565 into one and Saison Belle into the other. They fermented in the brew shed at temps between mid 20's to mid 30's.
They both had krausen next morning but the Belle Saison was twice as thick and stayed that way for most of the fermentation.
Gravity readings were as follows; 7/2, Belle 1.006 WLP565 1.010. 12/2, Belle 1.002 WLP565 1.006. 20/2 Kegged/bottled
Belle 1.002 WLP565 1.004 (which is the usual FG for my Saisons when I use WLP565).
Both yeasts looked the same at the bottom of the fermenters. Same amount, creamy texture slightly orange in colour. The Belle krausen residue on the side of the fermenter was slightly harder to remove but still easy to do so.
While young, my tastings from the kegs confirm that I have two, but different, saisons. The WLP565 has the crisp fruitiness. The Belle seems to be a bit less fruity but with a nice tang.
I will do a blind comparison with some fellow home brewers next weekend and at the ESB meeting at the end of the month and will report back with results.
In the mean time IMHO Saison Belle appears to be a true saison yeast and it is worth a try.
Hope this helps.
 

tazman1967

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I am going to use this yeast in Tony's BullsHead Summer Saison recipe. I have made this with the French, Belgian and Farmhouse Ale ( my Fav ) strains.
I'll be pitching one pack and fermenting about 25 degrees,
Be interested to see how it goes and might try some repitch's on the yeast cake.
Cheers
 

doon

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I just pitched a 1.5l starter of this yeast and have krausen in under two hours
 

doon

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Massive krausen come and completely dropped out in two days!
 

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