Current Melbourne Co2 Options

[Fents]

what do you mena by stupidly big bottles Fents? siz wise? I have a big ass 4x4 and can get just about anything in it. Im going to have to get a gas option for my soon to be keg setup

Those massive tall long ones. Huge they are.

 

[Andyd]

Did rental price increases get included in these calculations?

No - that's static rental over the period.

 

[brettprevans]

was asking dave @ greensborough the other day and he reckons (im 80% sure this is what he said) the stupidly big bottles are cheap. $22 rent all year and only $10 extra to fill than a samll one, good luck getting it into car tho.

Call him 9432 0283.

Sounds like Dave's 22L ones are the way to go for minimum outlay. obviously owning your own CO2 cylender becomes the better option the longer you have it.

FYI - I rang bunniongs today to see if they stock CO2 cylender.s they stock a small one for an ozito nailgun (which is obviously no use to HB), but they guy said you can gets the bottle refilled in store. SO maybe bunnings is a refill option?....then again supporting the local HBS is preferable.

 

[razz]

I just rang United Fire Equipment Services in Moorabbin for a refill price on my Mykegsonlegs 6.8 kg cylinder. They quoted me $39.50, but also said that they would have to replace the spindle and O ring at an additional cost of $17.50. Seems strange when the cylinder was new last year. Can anyone varify that the spindle and O ring have to be replaced on each fill? :blink:

 

[Lukes]

No idea but it does not sound right, sounds more like a test and fill.
BTW: they are not on the mykegonlegs list anymore?
Maybe just swap it in Franga what's closer.

- Luke

 

[razz]

Thanks Luke. They didn't ask me who I got it from. I rang Brew'n'grow in Frankston, they wanted $50 for a swap.

 

[brettprevans]

I made a post here about doing some research with non-mainstream suppliers of CO2 gas and bottles. Ive had a few acknowledgment emails (ie we get someone to contact you) but no actual info yet. maybe it will turn out to be fruitful in our search for cheap food grade CO2 and bottles

Edit: at least I havent had any "no we dont do it, bugger off' responses. so there is hope.

 

[voota]

I can confirm that Greensborough home brew have 22kg CO2 cylinders for $19 per year hire and $60 to refill, these things are huge and heavy, you'll need two people to get one cylinder into the car.

This must be the best deal for co2 in the country right now?

 

[mykegonlegs]

Yep - agreed it's the same cost, except that I'm getting a 22Kg bottle for that cost.

When I ran the numbers, including outright cost of the 6KG bottle, fill cost for 6Kg, re-Testing cost after 10 years, against hire of the 22Kg and cost of refilling it, here's what I got...
[codebox]

Year KoL Supagas

=======================

1 410 142.5

2 520 285

3 630 427.5

4 740 570

5 850 712.5

6 960 855

7 1070 997.5

8 1180 1140

9 1290 1282.5

10 1400 1425

11 1510 1567.5

12 1620 1710

13 1730 1852.5

14 1840 1995

15 1950 2137.5

[/codebox]



So after 10 years, a KoL solution starts to pull away in front, as long as that bottle never needs to be replaced...



I may have screwed up the calcs, but it looked sound to me.



Andy

Hi Andy,



Just had a look at your numbers on the price option. The 10 year hydrostatic test is not paid for by people using the swap and go, it is factored into the gas price. ($45-$50) The simple equation is 10 years worth of rent and 10 fills to $300 upfront and 10 fills. 10 years of MKOL is only $800 not $1400 at 1 fill per year.

In Sydney it pays for itself in 2 1/2 years, 3 years elswhere.

Cheers,

Mark (MKOL) :beer:

 

[LethalCorpse]

Andy, your numbers don't take into account the net present value of cash either. It's an accounting formula which basically acknowledges that a dollar you have to spend next year is cheaper than a dollar you have to spend today. A standard discount rate for this formula is 10%pa, , which yields:

												 Rate:	10.0%		

Year	KoL	Supagas	KoL ∆  SG ∆	 NPV KoL   NPV SG	 adj KoL	  adj SG

=============================================================================

===							

0	   410	142.5	  410	142.5	$410.00   $142.50	$410.00	  $142.50

1	   520	285		110	142.5	$100.00   $129.55	$510.00	  $272.05

2	   630	427.5	  110	142.5	$90.91	$117.77	$600.91	  $389.81

3	   740	570		110	142.5	$82.64	$107.06	$683.55	  $496.88

4	   850	712.5	  110	142.5	$75.13	$97.33	 $758.69	  $594.21

5	   960	855		110	142.5	$68.30	$88.48	 $826.99	  $682.69

6	   1070   997.5	  110	142.5	$62.09	$80.44	 $889.08	  $763.12

7	   1180   1140	   110	142.5	$56.45	$73.13	 $945.53	  $836.25

8	   1290   1282.5	 110	142.5	$51.32	$66.48	 $996.84	  $902.73

9	   1400   1425	   110	142.5	$46.65	$60.43	 $1,043.49	$963.16

10	  1510   1567.5	 110	142.5	$42.41	$54.94	 $1,085.90	$1,018.10

11	  1620   1710	   110	142.5	$38.55	$49.95	 $1,124.46	$1,068.05

12	  1730   1852.5	 110	142.5	$35.05	$45.40	 $1,159.51	$1,113.45

13	  1840   1995	   110	142.5	$31.86	$41.28	 $1,191.37	$1,154.73

14	  1950   2137.5	 110	142.5	$28.97	$37.52	 $1,220.34	$1,192.25

Using this, the KoL costs a lot more now, and over fourteen years it's still marginally more expensive. Even at a far more modest rate of 3.5%, the supagas one only comes out at $70 more expensive (I'd paste in the full sheet, but it's just taken me ten mins to get the first one formatted). I'll post the spreadsheet if anyone's interested. Granted, this doesn't factor in price rises for rental or gas, which could cancel out the NPV adjustment, but probably won't. The long and short of it is there isn't too much difference either way, unless you can score the cylinder much cheaper

 

[Andyd]

Andy, your numbers don't take into account the net present value of cash either. It's an accounting formula which basically acknowledges that a dollar you have to spend next year is cheaper than a dollar you have to spend today. A standard discount rate for this formula is 10%pa, , which yields:

Using this, the KoL costs a lot more now, and over fourteen years it's still marginally more expensive. Even at a far more modest rate of 3.5%, the supagas one only comes out at $70 more expensive (I'd paste in the full sheet, but it's just taken me ten mins to get the first one formatted). I'll post the spreadsheet if anyone's interested. Granted, this doesn't factor in price rises for rental or gas, which could cancel out the NPV adjustment, but probably won't. The long and short of it is there isn't too much difference either way, unless you can score the cylinder much cheaper

Nice work Lethal - at the time I was in a rush...

The other key in my mind is the convenience of having the bottle delivered on site, so it definitely all adds up to a win with SupaGas at the moment - convenience is worth a fair bit to me these days.

Each to their own, but I'll keep renting for now.

Andy

 

[brettprevans]

I can confirm that Greensborough home brew have 22kg CO2 cylinders for $19 per year hire and $60 to refill, these things are huge and heavy, you'll need two people to get one cylinder into the car.

This must be the best deal for co2 in the country right now?

Thanks for thew info Voota. I will be seeing dave to get a 22L bad boy in n a month or so when the kegging setup is complete. I might actualy get to try one oif his beers (I still havent).

 

[Fents]

biggup the dave and greensborough HBS! what a total legend.

03 94320283

lug:

 

[maltedhopalong]

I've been told that you shouldn't "test" your CO2 fire extinguisher because you can't trust it to seal properly and you may end up with an empty cylinder a few days later.

Obviously some on here use fire extinguishers as their preferred option so they must have found a way around this... Can any of you shed more light on this? Is it that the cylinder is fine and it's just the trigger mechanism that doesn't seal very well?

 

[brettprevans]

why would fire extinguishers be made without being able to test them? thats just silly. they are meant to be tested every so of

ten to ensure they work in case there is a fire. you have been severly misinformed .... unless i misunderstood your post.

 

[reg]

From what I have read and personal experience I have found that Fire extinguishers are generally pretty good but can occassionaly develop a leak from the handle area once operated and you can come out a couple of days later to find you are short of gas.

Bare in mind that they also have seals looked at every time they are refilled and replaced as necessary.
Personally looking at going to a 22kg gasbottle from Greensborough.

 

[brettprevans]

so it not the testing thats the issues its that fact that once its operated that it can develop a leak. as I said i will certainly be going to see Dave.