Crab Apple Cider

[pdilley]

Dave,

Gives us a taste test post before spraying season. Want to know if I should hit the Crab Apple tree with copper sulphate or just hit the green and reds.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[Airgead]

Dave,

Gives us a taste test post before spraying season. Want to know if I should hit the Crab Apple tree with copper sulphate or just hit the green and reds.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

Will do. I have a fridge full of grannies to juice this week (the juicer will be getting a good workout) and the starter is firing up so i should have it in the fermenter in a couple of days.

Cheers
Dave

 

[Greg.L]

Hi, I have a small farm near Bathurst and for the last 2 years have been making cider from table, cider and crab apples, and also pears. I think using crab apples is great, as has been noted, they add tannins and extra flavour (and definitely NO toxins). I got an OG of 1.06 from 1 crabapple tree this year, if your OG is only 1.05 you are probably picking a bit early.
I mill the apples with a garden mulcher, then press with a homemade press the traditional way. I get about 50% yield ie 5 litres per 10kg fruit. Pressing takes about an hour per 15 litres, this year I made 150 litres and it is drinking very well. I get an ABV of about 7% and carb in bottles after a month in primary.
This year I ordered 5 cider apple trees from strzlecki heritage apples, I aim to process over a ton of apples in a few years.
Greg

 

[Airgead]

OK Folks. I finally did it. I spent yesterday juicing 10kg of Granny Smiths (photos to follow once I pull my finger out and download them from the camera). The end result was around 6-7L of lovely fresh apple juice. I added 12l of commercial preservative free organic juice and the 4.5l of crab apple juice that I had in the freezer from earlier.

End result - around 25l of very interesting juice with an OG of 1045. Added a nice active starter of wyeast 4766 and away we go.

I'll let you guys know how it ends up in a few weeks.

Cheers
Dave

 

[Airgead]

Hi, I have a small farm near Bathurst and for the last 2 years have been making cider from table, cider and crab apples, and also pears. I think using crab apples is great, as has been noted, they add tannins and extra flavour (and definitely NO toxins). I got an OG of 1.06 from 1 crabapple tree this year, if your OG is only 1.05 you are probably picking a bit early.
I mill the apples with a garden mulcher, then press with a homemade press the traditional way. I get about 50% yield ie 5 litres per 10kg fruit. Pressing takes about an hour per 15 litres, this year I made 150 litres and it is drinking very well. I get an ABV of about 7% and carb in bottles after a month in primary.
This year I ordered 5 cider apple trees from strzlecki heritage apples, I aim to process over a ton of apples in a few years.
Greg

Can I be your friend?

Seriously, if you have any left over from your own cider making I'll be happy to take them off your hands...

Cheers
Dave

 

[Airgead]

OK Folks. Only the one photo. this was my crushng setup. Juice was tipped into the sanitised fermenter at the bottom of the shot. The pulp fell straight into a bucket for easy disposal. Worked pretty well. next time I will buy a piece of hose the right size to fit over the outlet of the juicer so I can run the juice straight into the fermenter.

 

[peas_and_corn]

She even brought a mash paddle for later on!

 

[Airgead]

An update on the cider -

All did not go smoothly after pitching. As soon as I had the fermenter full, I pitched my starter and shifted it into the fermentation fridge. Unfortunately we then had a cold snap. Please note - fridge not switched on. The thermostat was set to 16. I was hoping that fermentation would take of quickly and generate enough heat to keep the fridge warm with the thermostat kicking in to stop it overheating. It didn't. The temp crashed overnight to 8c.

Two days later and no activity at all. Fortunately Ross came to the rescue with a heater pad and fresh packet of 4766. That took a couple of days to arrange though so by the time I had warmed the juice back up and pitched the new starter a week had gone by. Juice still tasted OK though.

This time the fermentation took off strongly. Possibly a bit too strongly. It finished last week at 1.000. Dead dry. I usually finish at around 1.004-1.006 with the 4766 so either the crab apples changed the way the yeast ferments or I picked up an infection with something during the week it was sitting there. I am starting to suspect the latter. There is a lot of wild yeast on apples so that weeks delay may have given them a foothold and they just took over when I heated the juice back up to 16. I probably should have switched the fridge down to proper fridge temps for safe storage while I waited for the new yeast and heater.

I've crash chilled it now to drop the yeast out and I'll taste again in a week or two. It tastes very acidic and slightly odd now but I'm hoping that a few weeks ageing will soften things. If not and the odd flavours grow into full blown infected flavours this one might be for the drain.

If it doesn't get any worse I might throw some maleolactic culture in to soften the acids. I'll still need to back sweeten though. I'll probably add some fresh juice or maybe a touch of honey in the keg. As long as I keep it cold it will not re-ferment.

Even if this batch doesn't work out I will still call the crab apple experiment a success. the crabs added a lot of character to the initial juice and until it fermented right down dry it was tasting really nice. Definitely worth trying again next year. I might cut down to 2-2.5l of crab juice rather than the 4.5 I used this time. That's 10% rather than 20%. Or I might do a bunch of small batches with maybe 2%, 5%, 10%, 20% and see which works best before committing to a full batch.

I'll let you guys know how it tastes in a week or two.

Cheers
Dave

 

[Airgead]

OK. I did some experimenting over the weekend.

Back sweetening to 1.008->1.010 makes this a rather nice drinkable cider. Needs some ageing bit it will be very drinkable once it has aged.

20% crab apples is definitely way too much. Especially when coupled with the granny smiths. 5-10% will work better next time...

Still not sure what dried it out so much. the only thing I can think of is my home pressed juice had a lot of pulp in it that may have given the yeast extra nutrients. Either that or I did get wild yeast in there and I'm just lucky that it was a nice tasting wild yeast.

Cheers
Dave

 

[pdilley]

Are you still going for a maleolactic treatment or perhaps blending with another cider?

I'm getting a nice acidic component with the S-04 so Ill have to switch yeasts if using next seasons crab apples.

 

[Airgead]

Are you still going for a maleolactic treatment or perhaps blending with another cider?

I'm getting a nice acidic component with the S-04 so Ill have to switch yeasts if using next seasons crab apples.

Still not sure. I might split the batch and do half with the maleolactic and half just sweetened.

Cheers
Dave

 

[Airgead]

O.K. Final update

After some sweetening experiments it tasted good enough that I didn't bother with the maleo-lactic. I back sweetened to 1.006 with a 50/50 mix of sugar and honey and kegged. Its tasting pretty good now. The crab apple definitely gives a lot more character and I'll certainly use them again. Probably around 5% though.

I had a couple of litres that wouldn't fit in the keg so I sweetened to 1.020 and fortified with 30% brandy to make an apple liqueur. That tastes fantastic. The missus is very happy. I'm not sure how long the 3l will last but I can always make more from the base cider - just add sugar/honey and brandy.

Cheers
Dave

 

[drsmurto]

Airgead - next time you can add campden tablets to your your fresh juice (sodium or potassium metabisulphite).

This will kill any wild yeast present on the apples.

I do this, let the juice sit for 24-48h during which time the juice settles with the froth on top and clear juice underneath.

Rack the clear juice and add the yeast - like you i prefer wyeast 4766.

Very excited to hear the crab apple experiment worked. :icon_cheers:

 

[Airgead]

Airgead - next time you can add campden tablets to your your fresh juice (sodium or potassium metabisulphite).

This will kill any wild yeast present on the apples.

I'm afraid I can't. I make this for the missus and she is allergic to the sulphur compounds in the campden tabs...

It would be so much easier if I could though.

Cheers
Dave

 

[drsmurto]

Have you thought about potassium sorbate instead?

Seems like a lot of effort to go to only to risk infection.

 

[Airgead]

Have you thought about potassium sorbate instead?

Seems like a lot of effort to go to only to risk infection.

I've thought about it but I'm not sure it would do the job. its a yeast inhibitor - stops the yeast from budding so I'm not sure I want that in there before adding my starter. If I add it and wait for it to dissipate, the wild yeast will come back to life as well and I'll be back where I started.

Traditional cider makers don't use the chemicals so I'll stick with my chemical free approach for a while. Next time I'll do two batches and try to keeve one. That sounds like fun.

Cheers
Dave

 

[drsmurto]

I've thought about it but I'm not sure it would do the job. its a yeast inhibitor - stops the yeast from budding so I'm not sure I want that in there before adding my starter. If I add it and wait for it to dissipate, the wild yeast will come back to life as well and I'll be back where I started.

Traditional cider makers don't use the chemicals so I'll stick with my chemical free approach for a while. Next time I'll do two batches and try to keeve one. That sounds like fun.

Cheers
Dave

Traditional cider makers dont add yeast either........ :lol:

 

[jonocarroll]

I treated the pulp with pectinainse and it looks to be dropping out a good bit more clear juice.

Traditional cider makers don't use the chemicals so I'll stick with my chemical free approach for a while.

:huh:

Next time I'll do two batches and try to keeve one. That sounds like fun.

You're already half-way there with the pectinase (as long as you mean pectin-methyl-esterase or PME enzyme, and not the pectinase that winemakers use for fining... ?) Incidentally, where did you get it? I had to do some wheelin' and dealin' to get mine, but it was ultra-pure. 'Traditionally' cider makers would use the natural PME in the fruit to separate the juices and keeve... but that's the slow way. They would however add chalk and common table salt to make calcium carbonate to help the pectin gel precipitate, so you can't exactly say they didn't add chemicals.

As for keeving - you want it to go slow, so you'll either need to have apples that happen to only have a small amount of good yeast on them, or use something to kill half the yeast. If sulphates are out, then the sorbate may be your only option, apart from many frequent rackings that will likely end in infection.

My keeved cider is in bottles, unexploded. I cracked a bottle earlier this week (several months ahead of schedule, out of anticipation) and it's got some fizz, and a nice apple taste. I'm really looking forward to summer with this one.

 

[pdilley]

Sounds good dave. I'll add the Crab Apple tree to the spraying round this season.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete