Corruptive Hops

[Dazza_devil]

I was reading about hops in one of my gardening books and came across the following item of interest,

"Henry VIII forbade brewers to use the hop in ale, describing it as 'a wicked weed that would spoil the taste of the drink and endanger the people'. At that time it was thought to induce a state of melancholy. Herbs such as alecost, yarrow and wormwood were added to ale for their bitter or aromatic flavours, and the use of hops was only later acquired from the Dutch and Germans and their name for it 'beer' adopted."

I'm guessing it was still used on the blackmarket. Good name for a beer Blackmarket Ale. Anyone know any more about this or used any of the other herbs mentioned in their beer?
Perhaps it was being confused with it's closest relative the marijuana plant.
Cheers.

 

[RdeVjun]

Perhaps it was being confused with it's closest relative the marijuana plant.
Cheers.

Shhhh, Boagsy!!..
Oh well, cat's out of the bag now. Its a little- known fact that, not that I'm an expert.
One crazy guy I met yonks ago even wanted to graft hops onto cannabis rootstock and harvest the cones for smoking. How insanely ironic is that??!! I think he figured the THC is produced in the roots. Dunno how he went, but I guess it'd be great camoflage, one way or another.
Crazy stuff... :lol:

(Sorry Boagsy, I hope this doesn't lead us too far Off Topic!)

 

[HoppingMad]

Wormwood oil is used in the distillation of absinthe. Too much of the stuff can cause depression, uterine contractions and also can cause seizures and renal failure in some people. Some reckon Vincent Van Gogh went loopy and was depressed all the time as Wormwood absinthe was his favourite drop. If you eat the raw material (plant) it has side effects, if you drink the oil of wormwood undiluted it has side effects. With distilled absinthe you can only use a small amount of the oil I believe and there are restrictions in a lot of places as to the procedure when using it.

Would have thought that Wormwood was more devious than the hop. But I guess back in those days they didn't know how toxic the stuff was. Maybe Henry was hooked on it?

Hopper.

 

[b_thomas]

Nice little nugget of history there. Lets just hope it comes up in Trivial Pursuit!

There were some crazy perceptions about food back then, but apparently the Tudor's were all foodies and loved to experiment with different dishes.

 

[chappo1970]

Gwaud I hop little KRUDD doesn't see this thread and get any big idea's to tax hops et al Alcopops style, yeah?

 

[Supra-Jim]

Gwaud I hop little KRUDD doesn't see this thread and get any big idea's to tax hops et al Alcopops style, yeah?

OH GOD, i'd be f&&Ked.

:icon_cheers: SJ

 

[Bribie G]

Ale was flavoured with a mix of herbs called 'gruit' and the Church controlled the trade as most of the gruit was grown by monks, so it was a nice little earner for them. Priests would rail against the evil hop from the pulpit in the same way as they rail against drugs and sex and rock n roll nowadays.
The church also tried to ban coffee when it first appeared in the 16th century but someone had got in first and nobbled Pope Clement VIII with a few cups and he proclaimed it to be a gift from the Lord.

:icon_cheers:

 

[Dazza_devil]

Hmmmm, the plot thickens.

I found a recipe,

Gruit Ale (5 gallon batch)

Malts/Sugars
3 lbs. Dark caramel dry malt extract
0.5 lb. Light brown sugar
0.5 lb. Dark brown sugar
0.5 lb. Homemade invert candy sugar (medium color)
1 lb. Honey

Yeast
Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen

Hops
No hops, of course, but here are the herb additions in a 75 minute boil:
1 oz. Dried Mugwort at 60 minutes
1 oz. Dried Yarrow at 60 minutes
2 g. Dried Sweet Gale at 10 minutes
0.2 oz. Dried Marsh Rosemary at 10 minutes

Also added was 1 pound malto-dextrin at 10 minutes for added body/mouthfeel.

OG: 1.050 (12.33P)
FG: 1.008 (2.06P)
6.15% abv

Added 4.5ml 'Richie' heading agent at bottling. This was used to counteract the possible head killing oils from the herbs. Bottle conditioned with 5oz. corn sugar for priming.


Nice lot of info here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruit. Even more here - http://www.gruitale.com/


In my youth I did smoke some dried hop flowers on 1 occassion. Although it was very mild and quite tasty, I didn't experience any obvious psychological effects. However I did find it to be a relaxing experience.

 

[brettprevans]

LMAO! a traditional guit recipe with maltodex! love it!

Radical Brewing by Mosher has info on using herbs in beers, as well as gruits etc.

Also if you do a search on AHB for herbs you will get a few threads

 

[gibbocore]

doesn't sound like the catholic church to want to regulate and control... h34r:

 

[manticle]

Wormwood oil is used in the distillation of absinthe. Too much of the stuff can cause depression, uterine contractions and also can cause seizures and renal failure in some people. Some reckon Vincent Van Gogh went loopy and was depressed all the time as Wormwood absinthe was his favourite drop. If you eat the raw material (plant) it has side effects, if you drink the oil of wormwood undiluted it has side effects. With distilled absinthe you can only use a small amount of the oil I believe and there are restrictions in a lot of places as to the procedure when using it.

Would have thought that Wormwood was more devious than the hop. But I guess back in those days they didn't know how toxic the stuff was. Maybe Henry was hooked on it?

Hopper.

As much harm might possibly be attributed to the unusually high alcohol levels of some absinthe as to the thujone, which in most absinths was not (and still isn't) unusually high. I believe the effects of thujone (active constituent of wormwood) is inhibited by the alcohol as well although that's from memory and I'll have to consult my little book later.

Either way it's horrible stuff. I'd much rather a beer or a whisky.

I think most of Vincent's problems stemmed from his mental illnesses rather than anything he consumed.

 

[gibbocore]

according to wiki, thujone is responsible for acting on the motor neurone receptors of the brain, and in high dosages can lead to seizures ect, and is pretty much impossible to lead to hallucination as its rumoured to happen. Also, the levels of thujone in most absinthe is so low that its impossible to have any affect at all, and as mentioned, the high alcohol is more likely to have adverse affects.

 

[bum]

Thujone levels in modern absinthe is minor to negligible but this was not the case in it's earlier incarnations.

Erowid.org reports thujone as a psycho-active drug with cumulative effects. I guess they're saying the more you've had over time the more likely you are to experience the hallucinations, etc. They also state that the is little scientific evidence to either prove or disprove the supposed effects of this drug.

 

[manticle]

Thujone levels in modern absinthe is minor to negligible but this was not the case in it's earlier incarnations.

Erowid.org reports thujone as a psycho-active drug with cumulative effects. I guess they're saying the more you've had over time the more likely you are to experience the hallucinations, etc. They also state that the is little scientific evidence to either prove or disprove the supposed effects of this drug.

I'll check my book when I get home but I think it suggests that very few of the available commercial absinths, even in early days, were likely to contain particularly high amounts of wormwood. Obviously recipes for things change over time, recipes get lost, changed etc etc.

Good book though - a cultural history of absinthe by Phil Baker.

I still hate the stuff.

 

[HoppingMad]

LMAO! a traditional guit recipe with maltodex! love it!

Radical Brewing by Mosher has info on using herbs in beers, as well as gruits etc.

Also if you do a search on AHB for herbs you will get a few threads

Extreme Brewing by Sam Caligione also has a section on herbs with handy stuff like amounts to put into your boil but dunno about gruits. Don't have the book yet but want it bad - just for that one page.

Hopper.

 

[Boozy the clown]

Apparently it wasnt the thujone or the wormwood which made so many people lose their minds via the 'Green fairy'

Good absinthe should always be green they reckoned, so back in the day they used copper to colour it so it was the copper that sent the drinkers loopy.

Poor old vinnie VG was right into his absinthe, that and the psycho-active drugs his quack prescribed him for his depression.

 

[KingPython]

I wonder if wormwood is a controlled substance.....

 

[bum]

I'm pretty sure it is illegal in Absinthe in this country so I'd imagine so.

 

[Jase71]

I wonder if wormwood is a controlled substance.....

Without question, wormwood plants &/or the dried material from said plants is not illegal in any state of Australia. If anybody wants to use some in an experiental beer, PM me and we can arrange a quanity so long as you post your results.

Ive been meaning to do some experiments with small-batch brews but keep forgetting to get a small edmijohn froma mates lace for the purpose. Although I would surmise that anything more than 1g/5litres would be the absolute upper limit for the bitterness.

And genuine Absinthe (ie crafted to traditional recipes) is available in Australia, it's just very bloody expensive.

 

[bum]

Ah, cool.

Apologies all round.