Coopers Yeast Starter

[storeboughtcheeseburgers]

I just put down a brew using a coopers yeast starter. I boiled about 800ml and put 60g of dextrose and 3 coopers green sediments in it once it had cooled. that was about a week ago, I know they say 4-5 days but its been pretty cold, and the glad wrap on top seemed inflated. I put a teaspoon of dex in the night before adding it to the brew.

How long do the starters usually take to start the airlock off? I swished the starter bottle every few days, and it was cloudy, just hoping it works.

 

[gap]

What did you boil?
800ml of water or 800lm of water with 80g of DME?
Should not need dextrose in the starter.
Also 800ml may be a bit large for that amount of copers sediment.

 

[davedoran]

I tried this without success recently. Not to says yours wont work of course.
Please see link to advice I was given.
Hope it works out.

 

[storeboughtcheeseburgers]

Yeah I used dex as I didnt have any dry malt and read in other places ppl just use dex and sugar.

I used this guide : http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/uploads/ineo/Coopers_Yeast.pdf - was going to take a SG but never got around to it, hence the 800ml. I think I added a bit more than 60g, prob more like 70.

I didn't test gravities for the starter, so I'm just hoping it starts now. Its been placed in a 1.055 brew, so theres plenty of goodness in there to get it burbling. Only put it down this morning. I have some packet yeast to get it started if all else fails. I did taste a bit, it wasn't sour.. actually tasted sweet, possibly from the extra dex I added last night.. didn't smell foul tho and there was no visible chunks, except to the bottom of the starter bottle and some light foam on the top.

 

[coopsomulous]

I have made a starter from Cooper's Pale bottles twice now, once from three stubbies and once from two stubbies, and never had an issue. The trick is to step it up over a few days and find the youngest bottles of beer at the shop - they have a best after date printed on them. I started with 300mL and steped it up to 1L after two days. Allowed to ferment out and then crash cooled in the fridge so the liquid could be poured off and only the slurry to be pitched. When they were pitched into the fermenter there was healthy fermentation in around 6 to 12 hours. They have both been around 1.045 for OG.


I would give it a day and if nothing is happening then pitch your backup yeast. Hopefully you see some activity soon.

 

[storeboughtcheeseburgers]

Cheers Tommy. the reason I used DEX is because I didn't have malt, and also I only added 60-70 g instead of the full 80 for 800ml. Is there any reason why people use malt? So I take it the majority of the yeast falls down to the slurry layer and is enough for a brew? I don't think my brew will be infected in any case, as I was pretty anal with the sanitisation of the starter.

Yeah I'm remaining positive, I'll update if she starts blowing off.

 

[O-beer-wan-kenobi]

I asked a question about using Coopers Brew Enhancer 2 for a starter. http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/79557-coopers-brew-enhancer-2-for-a-starter/
This has 50% Dex and I was told the yeast become accustomed to the dex and then struggle to get through the complex sugars in the wort

 

[Papa Lazarou]

I once did all my ales with the coopers yeast recultured from 2 longnecks, putting a bung and air lock on 1 of them to start the fermentation. I used 4 tablespoons of cane sugar in 600ml of water to get it going. I read a lot about people making this process harder than it needs to be and as I am basically lazy I continued to do it this way.
Here is a link to the forum topic on Coopers website.

https://www.coopers.com.au/coopers-forum/topic/6959/

Remember to be as sanitary as possible and when it starts going it should smell like yeast. If so you are good to go.

 

[storeboughtcheeseburgers]

yeah I think it'll be right. yeast is pretty resilliant stuff. Ahh so thats why you use malt, slows the process and makes the yeast cake thicker?

 

[fletcher]

one thing i would recommend on using in your case, when you don't have dry malt, is an apple juice box. a popper.

if you don't have one at home, they're not hard to grab from a convenience store/supermarket, and all you need to do is make sure it doesn't have any preservatives and is actually juice (not apple 'drink').

just cut it open, making sure you've sanitised everything, and pour into your starter vessel, at room temp, and then dump in your coopers dregs. then when it's finished fermenting, you pop it in the fridge to let it settle, then pour the juice/cider off it, and step it up once more once you have dry malt (to about 1 litre).

much healthier for the yeast than dextrose and is usually always at 1.040 gravity.

 

[Yob]

You want to give yeast a diet of what you intend them to ferment... Never dextrose, and step the volumes, I personally wouldn't be using that yeast I'm sorry to say mate

 

[GABBA110360]

I've probably done a dozen coopers starters and I just follow there directions of using just normal sugar as the wort base.
no failures to date but it is a very aggressive yeast at around 20-22 deg.
will do the job In less the 2 days
just my bit cpa clone happening
cheers ken

 

[hoppy2B]

Yeast need nitrogen and brown sugar is a far better alternative to white sugar. Commercial yeast is normally propagated on molasses which is basically just a liquid version of brown sugar.

 

[AndrewQLD]

Yeast need nitrogen and brown sugar is a far better alternative to white sugar. Commercial yeast is normally propagated on molasses which is basically just a liquid version of brown sugar.

Really? I'd be interested to see any references you have to that information, wyeast recommend wort for yeast propagation and the one brewery I spent some time in used wort to propagate and step up their yeast cultures.
Wyeast

 

[ekul]

I usually step up in the actual bottle. I empty a tallies, add 50mls of wort to it. Then 100, then fill it. Then add that bottle to another 1.5L of wort. Let it ferment for a week, decant the beer on top and chuck it in.

recently i've been using wlp009, i like it a lot better, less finicky. After the first batch i keep a few stubbies of trub so i dont lose the strain.

 

[hoppy2B]

Really? I'd be interested to see any references you have to that information, wyeast recommend wort for yeast propagation and the one brewery I spent some time in used wort to propagate and step up their yeast cultures.
Wyeast

Sorry had to delete because the link I posted didn't work when I typed it in. My mouse is rooted, I am unable to cut it and post at the moment. I'll see if I can get a mouse tomorrow or fix my old mouse and post it if no one else beats me to it.

The lalllemand site has info about growing yeast on sugar and a pic of a molasses tank.

 

[Yob]

Subscribed

 

[TheWiggman]

Sorry had to delete because the link I posted didn't work when I typed it in. My mouse is rooted, I am unable to cut it and post at the moment. I'll see if I can get a mouse tomorrow or fix my old mouse and post it if no one else beats me to it

Ctrl-x, Ctrl-c?
Or menus Edit > Cut, Edit > Paste?

 

[AndrewQLD]

Sorry had to delete because the link I posted didn't work when I typed it in. My mouse is rooted, I am unable to cut it and post at the moment. I'll see if I can get a mouse tomorrow or fix my old mouse and post it if no one else beats me to it.

The lalllemand site has info about growing yeast on sugar and a pic of a molasses tank.

Man there are some conflicting articles on that site hoppy,
Here's what I could find, http://www.danstaryeast.com/articles/supplied-yeast-stage-life

Supplied Yeast Stage Of Life



Starter Commercial Yeast


When pitchable quantities of "liquid" yeast are provided to a commercial microbrewery by a commercial yeast producer, in what stage of the life of the yeast is the yeast supplied?

It is my understanding--please correct me where I am wrong--that commercial yeast producers typically propagate the yeast aerobically with constant infusion of medium at rates that maintain very low glucose concentrations in the culture--conditions that avoid induction of the Crabtree effect of high glucose.

At some point in the propagation, the infusion of the medium is discontinued and the yeast are allowed to consume the remainder of the fermentables and to flocculate.

Is this the stage in which the pitchable quantities of yeast are sold to commercial microbreweries? If not, tell us what the yeast producers provide to commercial breweries.


The method you described is probably used by some commercial yeast producer brewing for liquid brewing yeast and we use a similar approach for our dry yeast production.

However at Siebel we produce the yeast upon request and use very well aerated step up propagations for that. For these batch propagations we use regular all malt brewers' wort which is supplemented with extra nutrients, like minerals and vitamins, to ensure optimum growth and high viability and vitality.
When all the sugars are consumed in the last batch propagation a sample is taken for QC and the propagation vessel is cooled to allow the yeast to settle. The media/beer is then decanted to concentrate the yeast.

Once all QC tests are finished and the yeast meets all our specifications it is shipped cooled to the customer. This whole process takes up to 2 weeks, which means that the customer will receive the yeast 5 to 6 days after the propagation is finished. That is how long it takes to complete QC and for shipping.

I assume this is the article you are referring to, http://www.danstaryeast.com/articles/encouraging-yeast-growth, I have a feeling this description below my refer to a method of fast propagation although it doesn't refer to brewing yeasts either. It is at odds with what they say above regarding their method of propagation.

Encouraging Yeast Growth



Growth Glucose




Thank you Dr. Cone for sharing your knowledge.

If I want to "grow" yeast fast what would be your suggestions. I have read if you keep a constant temp, O2, limit glucose to >.4% with stirring, yeast will stay in the respiratory (growth) state and grow rapidly. I have found limited info on the process. What would be the doubling rate if good constants were kept?

- Bob Z.


RESPONSE:
You are almost right. Limit glucose to >.2%. Yeast do not grow faster under these glucose limiting conditions. They grow without the production of any alcohol. This is important for the commercial production of yeast. They want all of the sugar and other nutrients to go into cell mass. Any alcohol produced is waste and ultimately becomes air pollution as the huge volumes of air (thousands of cubic feet per minute) blow through the growth media. On an average the yeast doubles about every five hours under these parameters. The growth rate is limited in order build into each cell the exact composition (minerals, protein, glycogen, trehalose, enzymes, DNA and etc) that is required to harvest a healthy yeast cell with built in stability for storage life. Also the growth cycle is limited the last hours of fermentation to bring all of the cells into synchrony and stop new buds. The growth cycle could be shortened to 3 - 4 hours if cell mass was the only criteria.

Yeast can double in less than two hours in a non glucose limiting media. Every yeast strain has its own genetically controlled growth rate. The growth rate decreases as the sugar concentration goes up. A practical level of sugar is 10 - 12 %. A small amount of air is required. Shake flask with a cotton plug will provide enough air. Rich sources of nitrogen, phosphate minerals and key vitamins increase the growth rate.

I also found this article here that supports your original post however the yeast cells have to be seperated from the fermented media using a centrifuge and then subjected to washing separations to reduce non yeast solids, not that practical in a home brew enviroment.

 

[storeboughtcheeseburgers]

You want to give yeast a diet of what you intend them to ferment... Never dextrose, and step the volumes, I personally wouldn't be using that yeast I'm sorry to say mate

Yeh this makes sense. Well theres been a lot of good input about the step up process. Still no action with the fermenter, if theres still nothing I'll throw a packet yeast in tonight. Its only a tin brew with brew enhancer 2, and 300g dex, so its not the end of the world. The recipe says to use 2 tin yeasts, for a 1.055 SG would you guys use 1 or 2 (also considering the originally coopers starter has been added to no effect)