Cooper's Kit: Slight Changes To The Instructions?

[bcp]

Hi.

Brand new Cooper's kit... Crash course reading on internet, particularly this site and John Palmer... http://www.howtobrew.com/

First batch coming up on Saturday (their standard Lager - i know the yeast is ale), need to check my thoughts on changing the instructions a little. It seems like the instructions have been made to make things as easy as possible for beginners. But from my reading, i'm thinking:

1. I should hydrate the yeast Dry yeast should be re-hydrated in water before pitching. Often the concentration of sugars in wort is high enough that the yeast can not draw enough water across the cell membranes to restart their metabolism. For best results, re-hydrate 2 packets of dry yeast in warm water (95-105F) and then proof the yeast by adding some sugar to see if they are still alive after de-hydration and storage.

The Cooper's instructions dont say to do this, but it sounds like this is a good idea.


2. I don't need to boil, adding hops, etc The kit suggests you simply add boiling water to the lager concentrate, because it has already been prepared. So I'll follow the instructions here.


3. Cool the wort After the boil, the wort must be cooled to yeast pitching temperature (65-90 F [18-32 C]) as quickly as possible. To do this, immerse the pot in a cold water bath. (John Palmer)
Whereas the kit achieves the same thing by adding lots of cold water to the wort, so that the temperature drops very quickly. So if adding cool water brings the temperature low enough, i won't need to do more to cool it.


4. Aeration when cool You should not aerate when the wort is hot, or even warm. Aeration of hot wort will cause the oxygen to chemically bind to various wort compounds. Over time, these compounds will break down, freeing atomic oxygen back into the beer where it can oxidize the alcohols and hop compounds producing off-flavors and aromas like wet cardboard or sherry-like flavors. The generally accepted temperature cutoff for preventing hot wort oxidation is 80F. (John Palmer)

Also other bacteria can multiply whilst it is still warm. Ok, so when i add the cold water, it will aerate the wort, but if the water is sufficiently cold to bring the temperature down quickly, this shouldnt matter, right? In fact it should help. After the yeast has started, i'll avoid all commotion.

5. Temperature control The Cooper's kit says the yeast performs best at 21c-27c. But most people recommend 18-20c for ale yeasts. Does this apply to the standard yeast with the Cooper kits? So i keep the wort at 18-20c.

6. What haven't i thought of? Are my assumptions above correct? Is there something i'm missing?

By the way, i live in Baxter, Vic. If there's anyone local who'd like to compare notes...
Thanks for any advice, Brett

 

[komodo]

Brett,

Frankston south checking in (just near the shell servo on the hwy / robinsons road).

Im only a new brewer also and I've done a couple of kits just to fill kegs (setting up all grain)
I would suggest hydrating to yeast. I always do (even when using bakers yeast for pizzas) and I think it makes a world of difference to how fast the yeast starts and works.
I would also suggest fermenting at the lower temp of around 18c if possible. I'd just go with adding cold water to get the desired temp and liquid quantity - I cant see any negitive effects. Many of the BIAB and traditional 3 vessel brewers do it when they make a more concentrated wort.

I would just recomend making sure you have temp control sorted.
Hygine / sanitising routine sorted.

Probably look to see if you cant reculture some coopers yeast from bottles? Or look to using a liquid yeast from one of the suppliers - see if there is some other yeast strain that takes you fancy (read the descriptions / profiles to see if any take your fancy - or read on here to see if others have recomended yeasts that might be suitable)

I'm assuming being a new brewer your bottling?
Have you got PET of glass bottles lined up? sanitising proceedure under control? mates to help bottle and cap? have you read up on bulk priming? or are you using lollies?

Good luck with it all let us know how you go.

Cheers,
Kirk

 

[brettprevans]

best advice....chuck the coopers instructions and either use How to Brew or another reputable resource (like AHB!).

1. dont worry about rehydrating. baby steps first
2. for a basic kit, yeah. dont use 22L of boiling water though, your temp will be way to high. you can progress and make more complicated kits later by adding more hops, grains etc.
3. yup. you got it.
4. aeration is vital to healthy yeast. use a sterilized spoon and aerate once wort is cool. then pitch yeast once temp is right and dont touch again.
5. coopers and their temps blow goats. general guide.. Ale ~18C, lagers ~12C.
6. read palmers ans your laughing. or any of the points in Butter's signature

 

[Bribie G]

Yes temperature is the thing, if you ferment Coopers yeasts below 20 they aren't too bad and I've occasionally used them in all grain brews such as stouts and Australian Olds and they have turned out good. When you get your feet on the ground you might want to experiment with some of the dried yeasts on the market that you can buy separately such as US-05, but stick with what you are doing at the moment.

I've never lost a brew yet using good old town water to top up the kit wort. Town water usually contains plenty of dissolved oxygen and as you pour it in you adding more oxygen.

If using additional hops in the form of hop flowers or hop pellets they can be boiled separately in a small pan and strained into the brew. Or if you want to experiment you can get hop 'tea bags' from home brew shops that you just chuck into the fermenter and the bag floats around for the duration of the fermentation and adds extra hop aroma.

Welcome to the craft

 

[np1962]

If you have your sanitation and temperatures under control you will end up with a drinkable brew.
You have started well by reading Palmers and joining AHB, now just get your first in the fermenter and then sit back and read through the articles linked above.
They were linked from buttersd70's sig but he is now too classy for that :lol:
Enjoy the process and remember, sanitise, sanitise, sanitise and don't panic if your airlock doesn't bubble!

Cheers
Nige

 

[Fents]

Ive thought about the coopers instructions a bit.

My theory is they have these very very basic instructions so people can make a "drinkable" beer. Not everyone has fermentation control. Also not everyone cares about yeast/rehydration etc. Some people just want to make beer quickly.

If they had a 30 page booklet on the ins and outs of brewing (as per "our" istructions) how many guys do you reckon they would scare off after reading the instructions. Also if it did say YOU HAVE TO KEEP YOUR ALES @ 18C AND LAGERS @ 12C how many people do you think could actually achive that without ferm control? not many, if any.

I think we do a great thing by telling people on here a few adjustments but i also think coopers do a great job of getting people into homebrewing in the first place.

 

[np1962]

So true Fents..
and as Bribie said earlier "baby steps"
If you brew a drinkable beer first time and then the next one is an improvement on the first and so on....
the chances are you will be hooked and will want to learn more and continue the quality improvements in your beers.
This is what led me from K&K through K&B, extracts and minimashes until I new brew exclusively All Grain beers.
Not saying that this is for everyone but brewing better quality beer, by whatever method, will keep you interested IMHO.
Cheers
Nige

 

[cdbrown]

0. Welcome

1. I rehydrate my dry yeasts only because I think it helps kick off the ferment quicker. Boil water, put 200ml in a sanitized cup, cover and let cool. When it's about 25C I add the yeast and cover again. 30mins later it looks nice and creamy ready to pitch

2. The coopers kits are prehopped with bitterness and some flavour. If you want to add your own bitterness then you'd need to boil the hops with some extract for 60mins say. Fresh hop aroma just add it to the fermenter.

3. You aren't boiling so it's not really a problem. You will be warming the kit in a saucepan of hot water purely to make the concentrate more runny. I normally rinse the can with some hot water as well as it get's the concentrate out easier.

4. Adding the cans and all the water to fermenter will povide good aeration, but additional stirring to ensure everything is mixed up also helps aerate if you splash it around a bit.

5. The kit has an easy to achieve with rapid ferment temperature on the label - if you want quick "beer" then ferment at that temp. If you want drinkable and enjoyable beer then 18-20C is the way to go for ale yeasts.

6. Make sure everything is cleaned and sanitised, take a sample prior to adding the yeast to see if you have the right original gravity (alot of fermenter liquid volumes aren't very accurate), put sanitised liquid in the air-lock (pre-boiled cooled water, starsan solutions), enjoy the experience of brewing.

 

[Bribie G]

I've been in HB for 30 years and got out of it for a couple of decades before returning to the fold last year, and I can remember the 'old days' when Australian Kits first came on the market. Back then the major force in home brewing was Brigalow and a couple of other since defunct Queensland companies such as Sundowner and Gympie Goldrush. Why Queensland? because of the beer strike that left Queenslanders with no XXXX or Carlton for a couple of months, and this absolutely made the home brew market, and Brigalow in particular had a field day, then they invaded the Southern markets who were just ripe for a home brew 'revolution' such as Brigalow's complete brewery in a box etc. The instructions were to brew above 20 degrees. Don't brew in winter as it's too cold etc etc. Grant Sampson (who I seem to remember was involved with Brigalow) founded Morgans. So there's another QLD company. Coopers didn't get into the game until a few years later and have, due to their size, cleaned up a major part of the kit market.

However because QLD kits really kicked off 'modern' home brewing the instructions have, even to this day, remained hot-weather appropriate although in huge areas of Southern Australia, it's quite feasable to brew at less than 20 for most of the year with the exception of a couple of months in SA or Victoria after Xmas. I reckon that like packs of Yates Seeds the instructions could have a little map on them with different instructions for different areas, for example Subtropics, Temperate, Tassie B)

 

[ryanator]

I reckon that like packs of Yates Seeds the instructions could have a little map on them with different instructions for different areas, for example Subtropics, Temperate, Tassie B)

That is a damn good idea! Temperature plays such a large part in brewing and there is a large range of brewing environments in Australia.

 

[bcp]

Thanks for the responses - very helpful.

One further question - since i'm going to be adding quite a lot of cold water to the boiled water - do people bother preboiling Melbourne tap water if you're adding cold water? Or is it ok straight from the tap?

Komodo - i'm in Cerberus rd, just off Sages road. Pretty close. We'll have to swap beers when i have something worth drinking.

 

[jeremyeanlittle]

Thanks for the responses - very helpful.

One further question - since i'm going to be adding quite a lot of cold water to the boiled water - do people bother preboiling Melbourne tap water if you're adding cold water? Or is it ok straight from the tap?

Komodo - i'm in Cerberus rd, just off Sages road. Pretty close. We'll have to swap beers when i have something worth drinking.

BCP - I use Melbourne water, and the reason to be honest, I'm simply too lazy to boil it. Hasn't ruined any beers yet, but then again, have nothing to compare it to. A mate of mine buys filtered water in 5/10ltr containers from the supermarket, each to their own I guess, but if it's your first brew keep it simple and get complicated later!

 

[manticle]

Melbourne tap water is fine for your first few kits.

 

[aceuass]

http://www.geocities.com/lesjudith/
I found this very interesting, im sure its posted elsewhere

 

[komodo]

Komodo - i'm in Cerberus rd, just off Sages road. Pretty close. We'll have to swap beers when i have something worth drinking.

Bloody hell we are close! I take the dog for a run (and a swim in the dam) at the footy fields on sages road. Definately keen to swap beers - but like wise I have to turn out something worth drinking LOL

1. I rehydrate my dry yeasts only because I think it helps kick off the ferment quicker. Boil water, put 200ml in a sanitized cup, cover and let cool. When it's about 25C I add the yeast and cover again. 30mins later it looks nice and creamy ready to pitch

Question - I might be rehydrating incorrectly after reading that. I've always added about a table spoon of dried malt extract to the hot water (well disolved the DME in the boiling water) let the water cool to about 25degrees given the water then added the yeast. I figured that the yeast needed some sugars to start up? then when they "start up" I've been pitching them into the fermenter. Is this not the "correct" way of rehydrating?

 

[Bribie G]

I've always been a stickler for rehydrating yeasts but based on this thread I decided to just dry sprinkle a pack of US-05 in my last brew (sprinkled last Thursday) and it has taken off like a rocket and I'm getting a textbook ale fermentation happening there. I'll be doing that with my dried yeasts from now on - as they say why bother trying to fix something that ain't broke

 

[buttersd70]

Question - I might be rehydrating incorrectly after reading that. I've always added about a table spoon of dried malt extract to the hot water (well disolved the DME in the boiling water) let the water cool to about 25degrees given the water then added the yeast. I figured that the yeast needed some sugars to start up? then when they "start up" I've been pitching them into the fermenter. Is this not the "correct" way of rehydrating?

It depends on the yeast.....fermentis, for example, in their instructions state:

Re-hydrate the dry yeast into yeast cream in a stirred vessel prior to pitching. Sprinkle the dry
yeast in 10 times its own weight of sterile water or wort at 27C 3C.(80F 6F) Once the
expected weight of dry yeast is reconstituted into cream by this method (this takes about 15 to
30 minutes), maintain a gentle stirring for another 30 minutes. Then pitch the resultant cream
into the fermentation vessel.
Alternatively, pitch dry yeast directly in the fermentation vessel providing the temperature of
the wort is above 20C (68F). Progressively sprinkle the dry yeast into the wort ensuring the
yeast covers all the surface of wort available in order to avoid clumps. Leave for 30 minutes
and then mix the wort e.g. using aeration.

Danstar, on the other hand state :

Sprinkle the yeast on the surface of 10 times its weight of clean, sterilized (boiled) water at 3035C.
Do not use wort, or distilled or reverse osmosis water, as loss in viability will result. DO NOT STIR.
Leave undisturbed for 15 minutes, then stir to suspend yeast completely, and leave it for 5 more
minutes at 3035C. Then adjust temperature to that of the wort and inoculate without delay.
Attemperate in steps at 5-minute intervals of 10C to the temperature of the wort by mixing aliquots of
wort. Do not allow attemperation to be carried out by natural heat loss. This will take too long and
could result in loss of viability or vitality.
Temperature shock, at greater than 10C, will cause formation of petite mutants leading to long-term or
incomplete fermentation and possible formation of undesirable flavours.
Nottingham British Ale yeast has been conditioned to survive rehydration. The yeast contains an
adequate reservoir of carbohydrates and unsaturated fatty acids to achieve active growth. It is
unnecessary to aerate wort.

Instructions in full, for context...bold and italic added by myself in reference to your specific question.

imo, given that one says water or wort, and the other says water only, it's best to go with the common factor; ie water only. Palmer is absolutely correct when he states

Often the concentration of sugars in wort is high enough that the yeast can not draw enough water across the cell membranes to restart their metabolism.

simple analogy: if you're playing sport, what will give you better hydration? Water or sugary soft drink?

 

[zebba]

simple analogy: if you're playing sport, what will give you better hydration? Water or sugary soft drink?

Are you suggesting we rehydrate dry yeast using Gatorade?

 

[barneyb]

I'm glad I found this thread, it has most of the questions I was wondering about! I started my foray into home brewing last Wednesday with the Coopers kit and since then have done a lot of reading, including Palmer's How to Brew and the books at my local library.

The thing that was bugging me was the recommended temps, I now know that the yeast is not a lager yeast, but from all I've read 21C-27C is too high for even an Ale.

5. The kit has an easy to achieve with rapid ferment temperature on the label - if you want quick "beer" then ferment at that temp. If you want drinkable and enjoyable beer then 18-20C is the way to go for ale yeasts.

This makes a lot of sense. The kit does specifically say to keep it above those temperatures though, I guess this is so it finishes fermenting in the 4-7days they claim it will.

NOTE: The supplied yeast can ferment at 18C-32C. However, the yeast will perform at its best when the temperature is between 21C-27C. If the temperature is allowed to drop too low fermentation activity will stop.

(You can read the kit instructions here http://www.coopers.com.au/media/files/1451.pdf)

I'm planning to bottle this Saturday and wouldn't mind starting another batch soon after. I'm thinking Cooper's Pale Ale and am wondering if it is worth doing a boil and maybe adding something extra to it? I don't mind keeping to the instructions but seeing as the boil is the hardest part I'm eager to give it a go.

Any suggestions or should I just play it safe for the second brew?