Cooling After Diacetyl Rest - 2 Questions

[user 384]

Saying that Gregory Noonan's OTT and a Nitpick is a little unfair don't you think? He's got a book that's selling it's third reprint and a successful micro. I wouldn't call his advice wrong by any means. :blink:

Never said Noonan was wrong just that he is a bit full-on. You can get very good results without going to the same extent that Noonan presents. My reading of Noonan is that he is too single minded, there are many ways to skin a cat and this doesn't come across in his book. It's not surprising that he has this approach, as he is very much interested in successful comercial brewing. However as HBers we have continually shown that we can make pretty good reproductions of great styles without going to the same level as required in a commercial setting, and if on occasion we get it wrong then a corny keg of average beer is no great loss. For me some of Noonan's commercial methodologies are too intensive for how I see my hobby.

Look out John Palmer or Ray Daniels you could be next. :lol:

Don't get me started on these guys . I have made comment on Palmer in the past, in particular his recipe section and his Vienna Lager. He was kind enough to reply to forum and admitted that my comments were correct now, but at the time of his writing, there wasn't the range of malts available so he had to make adjustments.

Also lets not forget how detailed he was on mash tun chanelling. In the earlier days of this forum and Grumpys, there was loads of discusssion on making manifolds and other filtering devices. Many of us quouted his book and were obsessed with avoiding the dreaded chanelling. As it turns out on a HB level it makes bugger all difference. Look at how many of use Bazooka type screens or single lengths of braid in a rectangular esky. As a collective we found that if you batch sparge, chanelling is not a big issue and you can get away with a lot less effort than was recommended. Then there is the whole chill or no-chill question and again HBers are showing that some of the commercial practices that many of these books were based upon are not always necessary.

Don't get me wrong, Noonan, Palmer, Daniels, Papizan etc have all made huge contributions to the HB world and we have learnt a lot from them, but we have also taught ourselves a lot. I doubt that these guys would recommend that we follow all that they wrote and would admit that their books could do with a few revisions to accomodate the advances we have made in our knowledge of HBing.

Cheers
MAH

 

[Kai]

What a crack up! Had to do a search for RDWHAHB! I think I blocked this out subconsciously Kai after reading Papazian's book where every second paragraph finished with, 'Relax. Don't Worry. Have a Home Brew." To this day, the espression drives me insane. I wish that he had used it only when appropriate such as you did Kai.

Thanks Kai and others for setting my mind at rest. That lager can just stay in the fridge! Special thanks to AndrewQLD who seems to have a knack to answering my questions in a way I can understand immediately.

Cheers
PP

And of course, I meant Pat not Pete

 

[dubzau]

Mr Bud.
Hate to disappoint you, but you cannot copy a beer like Urquell.

You haven't disappointed me because I know that you aren't correct on this one (to the extent that it's maybe impossible to brew a perfect clone of any commercial beer, you may be right).

UNLESS you get hold of the unbuffered water of Czech repuplic, No chance.

where I live, water isn't a problem. Even if you have hard water there are things you can do short of importing it from Pilsen. In short, water isn't an insurmountable obstacle when trying to brew a czech pils on a small scale.

I think Oz got the best commercial beers in the entire known Universe and I am trying to find how to make these beer made cheaper.
Now that what this is all about Aye?

Now I don't know if you are just taking the p.iss? :huh:

Anyway, my question wasn't about cloning Urquell, but the effect of prematurely crashing yeast. I'm still interested if anyone has an answer.

 

[matti]

Did a search on Urquell and found nothing.
It might be a trade secret... good luck and sorry for not be able to answer the question

Below some more piss talk

My opinion is only a piss in the ocean Bud.
I just think the HB "Clubs" are quick to knock the commercial brewers and I admit was one as well.
A good home brew though DOES beats a VB or Tooheys any day
Though I have tried many style of beers in my 38-15 years of beer drinking I found that aussie beer stand tall over lot of imports.
Heineken is not that a great beer and America is yet to produce a beer worth mentioning.

Britts and Czech and Germans is the only one worth mentioning. They know what they are talking about and Australia being an immigrant country it is a great chance that these guys can make Australia the number one beer nation in the World.
Lets get the share back from the Wine industry
oops I like a cab. Sav. with my rear medium stake and unwooded chardonnay with my sea-food
Then a Scotch to top it off
Just a general piss heads humble opinion
I have read probably too much info about water chemistry type of grains and other opinions so I formed my own
matti

 

[Trent]

Matti
Are you joking, or serious, when you say that America is yet to produce a beer worth mentioning? I lived there for about 18 months all told, maybe closer to 2 years, and I have to say we are at least 10 years behing america in terms of beer availability and range. There are aver 1400 microbreweries in that country alone, and only 40 macrobreweries. Most of the micro's have an output much larger than squires or little creatures (I assume) and the quality is amazing. Ever heard of Stone, Dogfish Head, Sierra Nevada, Alesmith, Ballast Point, Pizza Port, Magic Hat, Russian River? At the recent beer world cup, America took out medals in 73 of the 85 beer categories, where australia took about a half a dozen. I believe I read that one was from Paddys. Massive congrats to any of the brewers that won a medal in that comp! Anyway, you just cannot say that american has yet to produce a beer worth mentioning, that is like saying all Aussie commercially available beer is shite. Oz has some very very good quality beers, as in little creatures, mountain goat, grand ridge, etc... You are more than welcome to your opinion, it could be right, but I have to say, America makes some of the best beer in the world. IMO
All the best
Trent
PS Sorry for the off topic post, and not trying to start a war! Every country makes megaswill, and it is generally only this that is exported. The rest of the world think Fosters is the only decent beer to come out of Oz....

 

[warrenlw63]

Matti
Are you joking, or serious, when you say that America is yet to produce a beer worth mentioning?

Just a general piss heads humble opinion

Trent. It's obviously well-researched by Matti.

Warren -

 

[dubzau]

Did a search on Urquell and found nothing.
It might be a trade secret... good luck and sorry for not be able to answer the question

Thanks, but I already know lots about Urquell, so that wasn't the question either. As I said, Urquell does show some diacetyl in its flavour profile, which doesn't surprise me.

Though I have tried many style of beers in my 38-15 years of beer drinking I found that aussie beer stand tall over lot of imports.
Heineken is not that a great beer and America is yet to produce a beer worth mentioning.

Are you talking about Dutch Heineken or the stuff brewed under license in all parts of the world?
As for American beer, somebody has already answered this, but I'll add my five cents worth - the brewing world (particularly home and micro) owes America a great debt. While the Germans were stuck in the rut of the Reinheitsgebot, and England was losing the art of making Real Ale, the Americans became the great innovators. They have more great beers than I can count. Sorry, but Australia is simply not a great brewing nation, tho many Australians like to believe that foreign beer is no better than cats pi ss.

Britts and Czech and Germans is the only one worth mentioning. They know what they are talking about and Australia being an immigrant country it is a great chance that these guys can make Australia the number one beer nation in the World.

I don't understand why Australia has developed such a bland beer culture. I've heard it said that it's got to do with the hot climate, but many of our Asian neighbours make good beers, and they are even hotter.
Luckily brewers like Little Creatures learned from the Americans.

I have read probably too much info about water chemistry type of grains and other opinions so I formed my own
matti

on this we probably agree. That is why I asked the question.

 

[matti]

No offence taken and none intended Bud "weiser".
There are a bigger population of immigrant in the states so the likely hood of micro brewer popping is larger. I am not sure how that would compare in capita though!
The trouble with states is that they are franchising everything and so the chance of survival of a descent export is near to none.

Back to diacetyl rest for a moment Isn't Gregory Noonan a Ceptic Tank?
I think he is a legend. I follow his methods to the point and turn out excellent lager these days.
BUT I use well modified 2 row lagers compared to the yank tanks who predominantly use 6 row.

matti

 

[matti]

Been looking for an answer of prematurely crashing yeast.
It appears to me that this is done when you intend to carb your beer up without having to add extra amount of sugar or CO2. I guess it allows the remaining yeast to add more flavour?
How would you do this with a lager?

Once in second fermenter you were to lower the temperature to -2 and lager for 4-6 weeks prior reaching FG. One has to be certain of expected final gravity. To be able carb up in bottle without adding any dextrose You would have to do it how many points above FG? If one is kegging it would be easy to adjust the amount of CO2 to ones needs.

I have yet to venture into kegging but using dextrose to prime my lager I find no real difference in end product once fully carbed and conditioned in comparison to taste just after end of lagering period.

Ps. can one get a descent Amerian import in Sydney? <_<
And whos said Aussie beer is bland? :huh:
Try to taste 'em next time?
matti