Continuing Rant Thread - Get it Off Ya Chest here

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SeeFar said:
The question still stands, what are they going to do, pick it up and take it back to their country? They either conduct business on the property, which means employing people and paying tax - or they let their investment go to waste. You haven’t actually explained why foreign ownership is bad yet.

As for debt, well if they buy land from Australians isnt it them that’s in debt to us? Secondly, you might want to play your scenario out before giving it credibility: we owe them heaps of money, they “call in their debts”, we default and our currency and status drops through the floor. They’ve just devalued their own investment - fail!

Grott, will respond later but it’s a bit more complex than you make out there.
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If the Aussie dollar plummets, the Chinese land owners ( those in agriculture ect
) make a killing by exporting their products back to China.
 
wereprawn said:
I reckon the Queen of England may have something to say about her land being taken off her. The Yanks would have a problem with it too.
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Yup, I understand that, but I say again, who's gonna stop 'em?
Nobody is stopping them building islands in and claiming huge chunks of supposedly international waters in the South China Sea. The UN, USA, and half the rest of the world is blustering and blubbering about it, but nobody is stopping them.
 
China is just fortifying its borders, really it has no real need or desire to expand territorially. It's got enough on its plate holding its own diverse country together, as has been the case for much of its five millennia of civilisation.

My mate Sam Dastyari told me this recently.
 
OK, well, if Sam told you it must be the honest truth. Couldn't come from a nicer source.
 
For people living in Taiwan or Tibet it might be an issue.

China marching into Australia is the sort of nonsense Hanson would trot out.
 
I don't think it will be of any concern to me what happens to this fair country in the next fifty years, but while the West tends to look ahead to the next election, other cultures tend to have a much longer view. And in the same time period, I believe that with it's isolationist tendencies, coupled with the unravelling of it's PNAC (Project for the New American Century), American influence globally is showing a downward trend.

Five millenia vs a few hundred years...

My 2c
 
evoo4u said:
View attachment 110071
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I detect a distinct lack of argument or evidence in your post.

Mate, there are reams published on these exact issues and the people who work in these areas all say the same thing. The threats you're pointing to do not exist and it's a pity that folk seem fixated on them because they end up missing the threats that very real.

Here's what people from the Australian national security community say regards China's ability to use economic coercion against Australia - https://nsc.crawford.anu.edu.au/sit...crawford_anu_edu_au/2017-05/policy_papers.pdf (authored by folk seconded from govt and edited by Medcalf who comes from DFAT and ONA). These people have access to information than we do not. I'd say they are the authoritative source worth paying attention to.

Here are things that you'd do better concerning yourself with:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-...-foreign-interference-australian-unis/9082948
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...n/news-story/77be3faf6ab6f40738fc5d7d5897d78b
http://www.smh.com.au/comment/chine...d-we-need-to-call-it-out-20170922-gymr4z.html

And of course, we've got the hard evidence of 'Shanghai Sam' Dastyari. Do yourself a favour and google the United Front Work Department of the Communist Party of China to understand the way China plays the influence game. It's all there to read, slowly coming out into the open.

Buying property and amassing debt is a silly and ineffectual way for a country to coerce another. It seriously is just fairytale ****, mate. Have a read and you will see how it occurs and where there real threat is.
 
Bribie G said:
China is just fortifying its borders, really it has no real need or desire to expand territorially. It's got enough on its plate holding its own diverse country together, as has been the case for much of its five millennia of civilisation.

My mate Sam Dastyari told me this recently.
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Well, it's buffering it's borders, that's what the South China Sea is about along with Senkaku, etc. China's economy, population and arable land is focused along the coastal regions which are buffered in the north by Siberia, in the west by the Tarim Basin and deserts and in the south by the Himalays and jungle. China is not at risk of a land invasion but they do not have the ability, yet, to repel a strong naval force, just as they didn't when the British, French, American's Germans and Japanese came knocking over the past couple of centuries.

If they're going to fight they don't want to do it in their cities, they want to do it out in the ocean and deny access to their strategic core along their coast. Hence why they want to push out past Taiwan, subdue Japan and own the South China Sea. They need to create strategic depth and break out past the maritime chokepoints you get in Luzon, Malacca, Sunda, Etc. Any other country in their position would do the same thing. They are aiming at being the regional power they were a thousand years ago. Can't blame them for doing so, can't let them succeed. The way they treat their minorities (Tibetans, Uighurs, Mongolians, etc.) is the way they will treat the weaker countries in the region.



China is not going to march into Australia. What the **** would they get out of doing that in the first place?
 
warra48 said:
Yup, I understand that, but I say again, who's gonna stop 'em?
Nobody is stopping them building islands in and claiming huge chunks of supposedly international waters in the South China Sea. The UN, USA, and half the rest of the world is blustering and blubbering about it, but nobody is stopping them.
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China does not have the logistical capability to launch an invasion in Australia. It doesn't have the heavy lift capabilities to get the hundreds of thousands of troops needed to take and to hold the massive territory and neither does it have the capability or capacity to fight their way here given that the US alone would wipe China off the map if they went to war today. Then picture China against Australia, the US, Japan, the UK, Malaysia, Singapore and New Zealand (I know that last one is funny...). It's laughable when you think about it.

Also, China's strategy in the South China Sea has been a spectacular success, no doubt about that. However, don't confuse operations short of war with conventional conflict. China is playing the salami slicing game in the South China Sea for the precise reason that it couldn't do it with force.
 
SeeFar said:
The way they treat their minorities (Tibetans, Uighurs, Mongolians, etc.) is the way they will treat the weaker countries in the region.

China is not going to march into Australia. What the **** would they get out of doing that in the first place?
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Um - agricultural land and underground resources immediately spring to mind. Perhaps they haven't thought of that?
 
“China is not going to march into Australia. What the **** would they get out of doing that in the first place?”

We or certainly I are not talking about, suggesting China is going to MARCH into Australia, if you bloody buy the place, take over economically you don’t have to.
SeeFar, I think you have gone over board on this topic and should read and respond to what people are actually saying.
 
Grott said:
“China is not going to march into Australia. What the **** would they get out of doing that in the first place?”

We or certainly I are not talking about, suggesting China is going to MARCH into Australia, if you bloody buy the place, take over economically you don’t have to.
SeeFar, I think you have gone over board on this topic and should read and respond to what people are actually saying.
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People were most definitely talking about territorial expansion up the page and were responding regards the US and UK alliances which have nothing to do with property ownership and are only about military force/attack/invasion. You may not have been talking about military issues but I'm fully confident others were.

No one has yet made any argument as to why foreign ownership of land (in terms of owning farms and whatnot) is bad for the national interest. Keep in mind, that we already export a large amount of our produce regardless of who owns the land. We are an export economy and have been since white settlement. I understand that there are issues that need to be sorted out, the gas situation is a perfect example. However international trade is the lifeblood of the Australian economy, dealing heavy blows to that would hugely impact our prosperity.

And by the way, I'm as middle class as it gets, mate. I was an infantry soldier for years, got out, went to uni whilst working and am barely hitting the $100k mark now. Most people I know are in a very similar bracket as my household, the middle class has not disappeared.
 

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