Cold Break

[wes1977]

Am I correct in saying the only way you can reduce cold break is by cooling the wort quicker?

Cheers

Wes

 

[MHB]

Sorry but the point of the question isn't clear.
Are you trying to reduce the amount of cold break carrying over to the fermenter
Or the opposite, stoping cold break from flocking so more of it goes to the fermenter.

Are you sure its worth worrying about, Cold break isn't really an issue unlike hot break, unless there is really large amounts, so large that it is interfering with your yeast and reducing the bitterness of the beer. That wont happen unless you are using really crappy malt (6-Row or made from cow food) or lots of high protein adjunct.

leting us know what you are trying to achieve and why would help!
Mark

 

[wes1977]

Perhaps I'm worrying about nothing, I'm trying not to carry too much over to the fermentor but also not leave too much wort in the kettle!

Cheers

 

[MHB]

Sounds to me like you aren't sure of the difference between Hot Break and Cold Break. Hot break is what forms in the kettle, if you were no-chilling and ran really nice clear hot wort to a cube, as it cools another batch of very fine flock form and slowly settles in the cube, this is cold break.

It is very good brewing practice to leave all or as much of the hot break in the kettle as you can and not to worry about cold break (with exceptions in previous post)
In a small system 5-10% of the end of boil volume can be expected to be left in the kettle, with a well designed kettle and good whirlpooling you might get that down to around 2%. In either case keep going until you cant draw any more clear wort - but don't be greedy.
The only problem is that if you use an immersion chiller it can be hard to tell where the hot break that has settled starts and the newly formed and very slow settling cold break ends.
Too much hot break material isn't good for the beer and leaving a bit of wort in the kettle is just a part of the cost of doing business.

I know a large faction of brewers here think their cock will drop off if they leave a single drop of wort behind, it isn't in fact the case, but I'm of the better to make 20L of great beer than 21L of less than best beer school of thought, the extra 1$ doesn't really bother me.
Mark

 

[wes1977]

I think it's cold break, it looks like the above pic. I usually have to leave about 3.5ltrs behind in the kettle on a 20ltr batch. Would you say that is about normal?

 

[technobabble66]

Is the wort in the above pic hot or cold/chilled?

 

[MHB]

Looks like hot break to me
M

 

[wes1977]

It's above and after chilling, you only see it the last few litres when draining to the fermentor...

 

[wes1977]

Really.... That's embarrassing..... So what's the best way of reducing hot break?

 

[technobabble66]

Looks like hot break to me
M

Agree

It's above and after chilling, you only see it the last few litres when draining to the fermentor...

by "above" do you mean "before"?
In what way are you chilling? Immersion Chiller?

If I'm guessing correctly what you're saying, i think it's hot break like MHB has mentioned.
In which case it's just a matter of using Irish Moss, etc (not essential, but it helps), creating a good whirlpool, giving it a decent time to settle (20-30mins for a 20-30L batch) and carefully draining it down to the last 1-2 L.

By reducing, do you mean "create a lesser amount"? If so, you don't want to do that. As MHB said, you actually want anything that might contribute to hot break, to go and form the hot break so it coagulates and drops out. It mainly represents stuff that you don't want passed into your beer. So in a sense, you want to form as much as possible.

If you mean "lessen the amount going into the FV", then do as described with a good whirlpool, plus Irish Moss or Whirlfloc.

FWIW, if you do All Grain brewing, (i assume you do given you've got hot break in the first place), i've found a good bit of recirculation through the grain bed at the end of the mash catches a lot of the extra crud that forms into the hot break. (If you BIAB, you're basically not going to be able to do this.) So the amount of hot break mush that's left in the bottom of the kettle is less, and i can drain the wort down a little more before i risk sucking hot break into the FV when i drain the kettle at the end.


PS: not embarrassing. You've gotta ask questions to learn.

 

[wes1977]

Thanks for the feedback guys, greatly appreciated.

I use an immersion chiller and cool my wort to sub 25c in around 25mins and whirlpool with a pump for 20mins and then rest for a further 30mins before transferring to the fermentor.

Which is better Irish Moss or Whirlfoc? I use half a tablet of Whirlfoc for a 20ltr batch.... Can you use too much whirlfloc?

Should the break set? Mine stays very light and fluffy so doesn't take much to disturb it!

If I let zero break through I would be leaving a good 5 litres behind!

Cheers

Wes

 

[Barge]

Brewbrite seems to be the popular choice. Haven't tried it yet and I've got a about 40 brews worth of whirlfloc to use up first.

Edit: you can use too much whirlfloc but half a tab in 20L is the correct dosage afaik.

 

[Vini2ton]

Hot break is when you're on the black on your second shot. I do 23lt brews, 11lt mashes and boils with top up and tip the whole lot in the fermenter. A couple of hop socks ( which look great with alligator shoes I might add) in the boil and deal with the trub later after ferment ie tip the shit out. I consume brew within 3 to 6 months (bottled) so I reckon fermenting on break/trub in my circuspants cuts through alot of worry and extra angst. And remember folks brewbrite is awesome. No affiliation. People genuinely like my beer and I only mix with discerning types. I reuse yeasty trubby cake and it still works magnificently. Brew on break.

 

[Barge]

Hot break is when you're on the black on your second shot. I do 23lt brews, 11lt mashes and boils with top up and tip the whole lot in the fermenter. A couple of hop socks ( which look great with alligator shoes I might add) in the boil and deal with the trub later after ferment ie tip the shit out. I consume brew within 3 to 6 months (bottled) so I reckon fermenting on break/trub in my circuspants cuts through alot of worry and extra angst. And remember folks brewbrite is awesome. No affiliation. People genuinely like my beer and I only mix with discerning types. I reuse yeasty trubby cake and it still works magnificently. Brew on break.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=231PT-5nKhY

Give it a listen, it'll make you worry less about tansferring trub!

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

. So what's the best way of reducing hot break?

There isnt one.

You actually want as much hot break formed as possible as this helps to make your beer nice and clear

 

[idzy]

It's above and after chilling, you only see it the last few litres when draining to the fermentor...

Really.... That's embarrassing..... So what's the best way of reducing hot break?

Hot break will have when you boil the wort, cold break will happen when you chill it well. Most brewers try to leave the break (hot and cold) in the kettle. The best way is to use kettle finings, whirlpool and create a nice cone in the centre of the kettle and then drain out from the side.

 

[JDW81]

Most brewers try to leave the break (hot and cold) in the kettle.

Not quite. Brewers who use an immersion chiller try and leave behind the hot and cold break, those who counterflow chill or no chill will end up with cold break in the fermenter with no adverse outcomes whatsoever.

Leave the hot break behind with finings and a decent whirlpool, and let the cold break fall wherever it falls.

JD

 

[pist]

There isnt one.

You actually want as much hot break formed as possible as this helps to make your beer nice and clear

Just to clarify a little further, as ducattiboystu said, you want all of the hot break to form, and then drop out. The best way to achieve this, is use a kettle fining such as whirlfloc (1/2 tab for 20-23L) or brewbrite. I find brewbrite to be the most effective. Add that when you add your 10Min hop additions. How you attack it from here on in depends on whether you chill or no chill. I no chill so heres my process. Once ive reached flameout cut the burner and let the wort sit until the proteins drop out/stop floating about. Usually about 20 mins. Now once its all dropped out, you want to collect it all in the middle to get it away from your pickup/ball valve. Stir the crap out of it until your arm hurts and let it sit for about another 20-30 mins till it settles. Then your right to transfer to no chill cube

 

[Matplat]

So slightly OT, but related.... before i started brewing I had never heard of irish moss, now i have but i have never bought or used it i dont even know what it looks like. When in woolies the other day i saw a bottle of 'Irish Moss' in the medical section, i checked it out and it was labelled as cough medicine. Is this the same stuff brewers use?

 

[manticle]

Same origin (carrageegan, derived from seaweed). No brewer is dropping that form into their wort as far as I know. Whirlfloc or brewbrite are the most common forms used in brewing.