Chilling My Ag

[woodmac66]

Just finished an Australian Pale Ale, Hit all my temps and went really well.
The only issue I have is I can only chill down to 31.5 degrees through My plate chiller.
I checked the temp of my water today and it is 31 degrees out of the tap.
I guess I need to look down the chilled water path ...
Looking for ideas on chilling economically .......

 

[davewaldo]

Hi Woody,

Do you have a temp controlled fermentation fridge? You could just put it in that and within a few hours it should be down to temp.

If you don't have the fridge you could try using a copper pre-chiller - 6m of copper in an esky of ice water.

6m of copper is about $20 (bunnings) and $5 for fittings. If you buy the ice however you'll be up for $3 per brew for ice. You could just use esky bricks but I don't see these being as efficient. I'm in the same boat but I just use my fermenting freezer to chill the last few degrees.

Hope this helps,

Dave

 

[Gout]

i am also thinking about doing something similar and wondered if a pre chiller for the water would do the trick, or more efficent to have the wort go through the plate chiller, and if its not cool enough (due to the chiller water supply being too warm) then pump the wort through an ice box - a coil inside a bucket of ice as a post chiller?

Has anyone done this?
the down side i see is another thing that needs cleaning / risk of infection
pros i would assume its more effective chilling the wort than chilling water and in turn the wort (could be wrong)

 

[woodmac66]

Hi Woody,

Do you have a temp controlled fermentation fridge? You could just put it in that and within a few hours it should be down to temp.

If you don't have the fridge you could try using a copper pre-chiller - 6m of copper in an esky of ice water.

6m of copper is about $20 (bunnings) and $5 for fittings. If you buy the ice however you'll be up for $3 per brew for ice. You could just use esky bricks but I don't see these being as efficient. I'm in the same boat but I just use my fermenting freezer to chill the last few degrees.

Hope this helps,

Dave

Cheers Dave I am pulling it down the last few degrees in the fermenting fridge!
Is this the best every one gets and is there an issue with it taking another 4-5 hours down to pitching from 31.

I was considering recirculating back to my kettle to say 40 degrees chilling down 60 litres of water to say 2 degrees and pumping through the exchanger with wort going to the fermenter.
Should get me close to pitch but a lot of messing around.
Or is it no big deal getting to 31 then the extra in the fridge to pitch

Woody

 

[glaab]

Im gonna try using a herms coil for a pre-chiller, to chill the water for the plate chiller not the wort. Not quite at that stage yet though.

 

[bowie in space]

Hi Woody,

Do you have a temp controlled fermentation fridge? You could just put it in that and within a few hours it should be down to temp.

If you don't have the fridge you could try using a copper pre-chiller - 6m of copper in an esky of ice water.

6m of copper is about $20 (bunnings) and $5 for fittings. If you buy the ice however you'll be up for $3 per brew for ice. You could just use esky bricks but I don't see these being as efficient. I'm in the same boat but I just use my fermenting freezer to chill the last few degrees.

Hope this helps,

Dave

Dave,

I tried this technique for the first time last week. I chilled my cube in the fermenting fridge and when I pitched, it took an eternity for it to start fermenting. Mine usually start firing after 12-24 hours but this took around 4 days to start. I had to drop another packet of US-04 after 3 days. Do you think this might be because the wort was too chilled, and it took the yeast a while to wake up? Is this possible? I then raised the temp to 20C and it finally started fermenting. It ended up fermenting the whole way through, but I'm thinking it might just be an unusual coincidence.

Does anyone else use their fermenting fridge to chill their cubes?

Bowie

 

[davewaldo]

Cheers Dave I am pulling it down the last few degrees in the fermenting fridge!
Is this the best every one gets and is there an issue with it taking another 4-5 hours down to pitching from 31.

I was considering recirculating back to my kettle to say 40 degrees chilling down 60 litres of water to say 2 degrees and pumping through the exchanger with wort going to the fermenter.
Should get me close to pitch but a lot of messing around.
Or is it no big deal getting to 31 then the extra in the fridge to pitch

Woody

I don't have a pump so this isn't an option for me. But that sounds like a pretty good idea. Recirculating back into the kettle also has the benefit of stopping hop usage quicker. Then you could use prechilled water or a prechiller to get the last few degrees.

I don't see using the fridge to chill the last few degrees being much of an issue. I usually pitch my yeast at about 25-26 degrees which I think helps it make a quick start. Then after the yeast is pitched it only takes an hour or two to get down to 18-19 degrees for normal fermentation, which I don't see causing any off flavours. I use a freezer to ferment in though so it may have better cooling power to get the temps down quicker.

Dave,

I tried this technique for the first time last week. I chilled my cube in the fermenting fridge and when I pitched, it took an eternity for it to start fermenting. Mine usually start firing after 12-24 hours but this took around 4 days to start. I had to drop another packet of US-04 after 3 days. Do you think this might be because the wort was too chilled, and it took the yeast a while to wake up? Is this possible? I then raised the temp to 20C and it finally started fermenting. It ended up fermenting the whole way through, but I'm thinking it might just be an unusual coincidence.

Does anyone else use their fermenting fridge to chill their cubes?

Bowie

Hey Bowie, which technique did you try? Just putting in the fridge or using a prechiller?

Eitherway I'm not sure how it would cause your yeast not to start. Do you know your fridge temp is accurate? Maybe its colder than you think? I quite like my method of pitching into slightly warmer wort to help things start quick which may help in the future.

 

[Screwtop]

I recirc back to the kettle, most of the time I can get down to 22 or so, by backing off the flow of the wort but leaving the water flow flat out. If not I use my old Immersion chiller as a pre chiller in a container of iced water after getting the temp down as far as possible/

Cheers,

Screwy

 

[Bribie G]

Nochill.

Cube.

Cool overnight to ambient.

Put in fridge for a few hours till pitching temp.

Pitch.

--- $22

 

[bowie in space]

I don't have a pump so this isn't an option for me. But that sounds like a pretty good idea. Recirculating back into the kettle also has the benefit of stopping hop usage quicker. Then you could use prechilled water or a prechiller to get the last few degrees.

I don't see using the fridge to chill the last few degrees being much of an issue. I usually pitch my yeast at about 25-26 degrees which I think helps it make a quick start. Then after the yeast is pitched it only takes an hour or two to get down to 18-19 degrees for normal fermentation, which I don't see causing any off flavours. I use a freezer to ferment in though so it may have better cooling power to get the temps down quicker.





Hey Bowie, which technique did you try? Just putting in the fridge or using a prechiller?

Eitherway I'm not sure how it would cause your yeast not to start. Do you know your fridge temp is accurate? Maybe its colder than you think? I quite like my method of pitching into slightly warmer wort to help things start quick which may help in the future.

You might be right with pitching to a slightly warmer wort Dave.

I'll try not chilling it all the way down next time.

BTW, I am using a fridge, not a pre-chiller.

Cheers

Bowie

 

[woodmac66]

I recirc back to the kettle, most of the time I can get down to 22 or so, by backing off the flow of the wort but leaving the water flow flat out. If not I use my old Immersion chiller as a pre chiller in a container of iced water after getting the temp down as far as possible/

Cheers,

Screwy

Screwy your water must be around 22 degrees !
I though I had issues with my plate chiller and was throttling back the flow of my Wort and it was no better until I measured the temperature of my tap water.
I had no idea it was that hot....... Bloody Adelaide Summers!
No matter waht I do I can't get cooler unles I chill water but what is the best way.
I usually Pitch @ 19 degrees which is pretty much what I ferment at ...

 

[bowie in space]

Nochill.

Cube.

Cool overnight to ambient.

Put in fridge for a few hours till pitching temp.

Pitch.

--- $22

I normally do just that Bribie, however, on this occasion I was in a bit of a hurry to get things done and thought I'd try a different method.

BTW, what does $22 mean? Is that what you charge for advice?!

Sorry haven't been on the forum for a little while, maybe a joke I missed...

Bowie

 

[woodmac66]

Dave,

I tried this technique for the first time last week. I chilled my cube in the fermenting fridge and when I pitched, it took an eternity for it to start fermenting. Mine usually start firing after 12-24 hours but this took around 4 days to start. I had to drop another packet of US-04 after 3 days. Do you think this might be because the wort was too chilled, and it took the yeast a while to wake up? Is this possible? I then raised the temp to 20C and it finally started fermenting. It ended up fermenting the whole way through, but I'm thinking it might just be an unusual coincidence.

Does anyone else use their fermenting fridge to chill their cubes?

Bowie

Hi Bowie , what was your Wort temp when you pitched I wouldn't have thought that would have been the issue.
I usually pitch @ 19 with 04 or o5 andits usually going nuts by morning 10-12 hours.
May have just been some shitty yeast
Only thing i make sure of is the yeast is the same temp as the Wort.


Woody

 

[woodmac66]

Nochill.

Cube.

Cool overnight to ambient.

Put in fridge for a few hours till pitching temp.

Pitch.

--- $22

Bribie wouldn't it be easier to just get the lsat few degree down in the fermenter or are there other benefits.... Wpouldn't I have to recalc all my recipes to No Chill....
Never done it !

 

[Bribie G]

Bribie wouldn't it be easier to just get the lsat few degree down in the fermenter or are there other benefits.... Wpouldn't I have to recalc all my recipes to No Chill....
Never done it !

Nochill consists, at its most basic, in running the boiling wort into a cube then sealing it up. The cube has become sanitised, and is really in the same category as a jar of jam or chutney or a can of peaches. You can stick it in the corner and use it to make beer a day, a week or a month from now. So there is no hurry to pitch it, just let it get to its own good temperature, or stick it in a fridge or a swimming pool B) or whatever and brew when it suits you.
For example I brewed on Thursday and cubed the wort. This morning it was sitting at ambient, around 29 degrees in the garage. Last night I smacked a Wyeast pack and it was nicely swollen by this morning, so I put the cube in my big fridge, did up a starter in a lab bottle with the Wyeast. By 2pm the starter was trying to climb out of the bottle and the cube had gone down to 19 - Perfect - so I pitched.

If I won a counterflow chiller or a plate chiller in a raffle (and we have such prizes at BABBs monthly meetings from time to time ) I'd sell it on the spot. No need to fix what ain't broke.

:icon_cheers:

 

[Fents]

Nochill consists, at its most basic, in running the boiling wort into a cube then sealing it up. The cube has become sanitised, and is really in the same category as a jar of jam or chutney or a can of peaches. You can stick it in the corner and use it to make beer a day, a week or a month from now. So there is no hurry to pitch it, just let it get to its own good temperature, or stick it in a fridge or a swimming pool B) or whatever and brew when it suits you.
For example I brewed on Thursday and cubed the wort. This morning it was sitting at ambient, around 29 degrees in the garage. Last night I smacked a Wyeast pack and it was nicely swollen by this morning, so I put the cube in my big fridge, did up a starter in a lab bottle with the Wyeast. By 2pm the starter was trying to climb out of the bottle and the cube had gone down to 19 - Perfect - so I pitched.

If I won a counterflow chiller or a plate chiller in a raffle (and we have such prizes at BABBs monthly meetings from time to time ) I'd sell it on the spot. No need to fix what ain't broke.

:icon_cheers:

Thats all fine and well but you should know by now you just dont get the same flavour and aroma from no chilling as you would chilling it down with a chiller to pitching temp straight away. No chilling extracts more bitterness and then to get the true aroma you either have to dry hop or cube hop 80% of the time.

Dont get my wrong i no chill all my homebrews i could not bring myself to waste that much water when victoria aint doing so well in the water stakes but also remember some people are old school and just love getting it down to pitching straight away locking in the hops.

Edit - OP i would go for a copper coil in an ice bath in an esky as a pre chiller just for the last half of the transfer. if your happy to no chill then thats great too...

 

[woodmac66]

Thats all fine and well but you should know by now you just dont get the same flavour and aroma from no chilling as you would chilling it down with a chiller to pitching temp straight away. No chilling extracts more bitterness and then to get the true aroma you either have to dry hop or cube hop 80% of the time.

Dont get my wrong i no chill all my homebrews i could not bring myself to waste that much water when victoria aint doing so well in the water stakes but also remember some people are old school and just love getting it down to pitching straight away locking in the hops.

Edit - OP i would go for a copper coil in an ice bath in an esky as a pre chiller just for the last half of the transfer. if your happy to no chill then thats great too...

Thanks Fents ,
I save and re-use the water as we are no better off in S.A ..
I Even considered running 2 plate chillers in tandem to speed things up .
Heaps of copper is probably a better option .

 

[dr K]

It is important to chill the hot wort quickly but not compulsory, as the no-chillers have proven without a doubt, as a previous poster noted

The cube has become sanitised, and is really in the same category as a jar of jam or chutney or a can of peaches.

Now fast chilling can only get you down to some temp above your mains water temp, of course its more desirable if your tap water runs at 7C than 23C but its the rapid drop from near boiling that counts not the final temp.
You are far better, and far safer to pitch at your terminal temp even if it is 32C then transfer to your fermenting temperatures than you are to chill in the fridge then pitch, 32 ain't going to hurt your yeast (it will hurt your beer if you leave it that temp for 12 or more though).
I must say +500 for BribieG's excellent analogy re: no chill and canned peaches.
I personally prefer the peach picked, chilled and freighted to the canned variety, but I know of many who prefer canned peaches over chilled "fresh" peaches, to each his own.

K

 

[Screwtop]

Woody, I put water in an old plastic garbage bin and add ice made in used plastic milk bottles, always have some on hand. Bash em on the shed floor to break up and cut the container in half and discard it. Drop the immersion chiller in and run tap water to the plate chiller via the immersion chiller. But don't use the iced water until you get the wort down as low as you can for best efficiency. Run the wort really slow via the chiller to the fermenter, adjust flow for pitching temp output.

Screwy

 

[woodmac66]

It is important to chill the hot wort quickly but not compulsory, as the no-chillers have proven without a doubt, as a previous poster noted
Now fast chilling can only get you down to some temp above your mains water temp, of course its more desirable if your tap water runs at 7C than 23C but its the rapid drop from near boiling that counts not the final temp.
You are far better, and far safer to pitch at your terminal temp even if it is 32C then transfer to your fermenting temperatures than you are to chill in the fridge then pitch, 32 ain't going to hurt your yeast (it will hurt your beer if you leave it that temp for 12 or more though).
I must say +500 for BribieG's excellent analogy re: no chill and canned peaches.
I personally prefer the peach picked, chilled and freighted to the canned variety, but I know of many who prefer canned peaches over chilled "fresh" peaches, to each his own.

K

Interesting K
Iwas of the opinion 32 would shock the yeast!!!
So you are saying better at 32 than what I am doing............. are there any negatives pitching at such a high temp then winding back to 19.