Chemical Taste Plaguing My Brewery

[krausenhaus]

I have just had to turf out another batch of beer due to a off flavour that keeps appearing in almost every batch I've brewed lately, bringing the total to well over 100L down the drain.

I did start http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/75226-astringency-from-fermenter-scum/]another topic[/url] about this recently but I think I've ruled out the cause I suggested there.

The beers all have a chemical, plastic-like bitterness and smell to them.

I split all my batches into two jerry cans, ferment for a couple of weeks, move to a cold crashing fridge, add gelatin, leave for a few days and then keg. The only batch that previously made it through unscathed was one that I didn't add any gelatin to.

The current batch I've been following closely, and up until a few days ago was free of the taste. I put one fermentor in to cold crash and added gelatin a couple of days ago, and left the other one at ambient. Just checked both of them then - the cold one is cloudy and tastes like shit, while the other one is fine. So it's got to be something to do with the CC/gelatin process.

I scrubbed the cold crashing fridge out with disinfectant before I put this batch in to make sure there wasn't anything hiding in there. Infection seems kind of unlikely because the taste only develops at 1°C in fully fermented beer, but the taste does seem similar to how I've seen people describe infections and some WASABC judges suggested it also (sorry guys).

I just whipped up some gelatin water and had a little taste to make sure it's not a bad batch or something, and it's fine.

Clearly I'll be giving the fining process a miss for a while, but what the hell could be happening here? Any ideas?

Having to tip out this much beer has been extremely ******* heartbreaking.

 

[krausenhaus]

I know it's a pretty blurry photo but the difference is massive.

Left is the non-gelatined/non-CC'd fermentor, right is the other one after three days at 1°C and two days with gelatine. Both tasted the same on Sunday.

Also, the cloudiness I get from these beers isn't just dropped yeast from the bottom of the keg, it persists all the way through. I did have one keg that was clear but still had the taste. I use Brewbrite too so it's not haze.

This photo actually makes me wonder why I bother fining in the first place..

 

[rbtmc]

I'd ditch the gelatin just in case there is something wrong with it (taste test might be inconclusive) and make sure your sanitation regime is top notch.
I read in one of your previous posts that you take the beer to the shed to cc and it splashes about. Could be getting oxidized?
Good luck!

 

[krausenhaus]

I'd ditch the gelatin just in case there is something wrong with it (taste test might be inconclusive) and make sure your sanitation regime is top notch.
I read in one of your previous posts that you take the beer to the shed to cc and it splashes about. Could be getting oxidized?
Good luck!

This batch I carefully racked to a secondary (to rule out the krausen-ring theory), purged with CO2 and moved very carefully. It went downhill within three days!

Definitely ditching the gelatine.

 

[wbosher]

Gelatine is over rated anyway. I cc, but don't use gelatine. Result is crystal clear beer

 

[pk.sax]

With your haze problem, even after using brewbrite. Maybe skip that once.

End of boil just cover the kettle and wait 5 minutes or so. Then whirlpool and wait to settle the trub and drain. Should be ok without coagulants or at least rule them out. Try using Irish moss or whirlfloc instead of bb if that helps.

Also, what's your mashing schedule? Someone more technical might pick up a problem.

 

[Mardoo]

The beers all have a chemical, plastic-like bitterness and smell to them.

Hmmm, that sounds very similar to something that happened on one of my beers, a kolsch, the only one I used gelatine in. It wasn't dump-ably offensive though, just annoying to me, the brewer. Everyone else loved the beer.

A friend had put it down to possibly being an early addition of Vanguard to the boil because it faded after about 6 months, but so many breweries use Vanguard in light beers to great success. I'll have to try a side-by-side. Lots of folks here use gelatin, so I have a hard time thinking that would be the case though. In the words of Original Spock, Curious.

 

[maxim0200]

Total newbie at brewing here so feel free to ignore, i have 2 ideas:

1) What are you cleaning/sanitising with?


" The beers all have a chemical, plastic-like bitterness and smell to them."

"I put one fermentor in to cold crash and added gelatin a couple of days ago, and left the other one at ambient."

2a) Did you leave the room temp one in your fermenter bucket?
2b) If it tatests plasticy then id suspect your CC vessel, what is it?

2c) If these containers your CC in havent given off flavours in the past have you possibly modifyed or drilled them recently that may have brought the taste out? (crazy idea but you sound desperate)

And RIP to 100L of beer....

 

[wide eyed and legless]

How are you mixing your gelatine ?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

The other question I was going to ask was your fermentation temps?

 

[QldKev]

Throw some pics of the brewery up, ensuring all hoses are seen.

Try the taste test.
Fill the HLT with water, and take it up to 78c,
Drop some water whilst still hot via each of your hoses into a cup, allow to cool and taste each cup (which represents a hose)
Allow the HLT cool and taste it.

Heat water in the mash tun allow to cool and taste it.

Boil water in your kettle.
Put some in your jerry cans to cool.
Once cool taste the kettle and also jerry can's water

Put some water in your fermenter, leave overnight and then taste it.

Mix up some gelatine at the ratio you wold normally use once diluted into the fermenter, taste it.

Any thing else that gets use in the brewery, eg spoon. Put into hot water and allow the water to cool and taste it.

 

[mmmyummybeer]

Firstly my sincere condolences for your loss . The gelatine seems to be the common factor, so I would start there. Looks like it could be getting an infection from the gelatine. Just because you mixed it up and it tasted ok, doesn't mean that its not harboring spores that when added to a fresh food source, such as your beer can multiplying and infect the beer. The other option would be the way you are mixing the gelatine are you boiling the water, sanitizing the mixing jar etc. My recommendation would be get some clean sanitized jars and experiment. Have one untreated, one with your normal gelatine mix, one with just water, one with just gelatine no water, and I would get some new gelatine and try that. Use a process of elimination. Anyway good luck and I hope you find your cause.

 

[yum beer]

Have you been using the same batch of gelatine all this time or are you using single packs.
Seems to be a clear(or not so clear) solution...ditch the gelatine. Beer doesn't have to be crystal clear, all the things you do for gelatin to work, work without gelatine.
Its like a diet pill, taken with exercise and calorie controlled diet you will lose wait, exercise and eat calorie controlled diet without pill...still lose weight.

 

[jaypes]

Total newbie at brewing here so feel free to ignore, i have 2 ideas:

1) What are you cleaning/sanitising with?


" The beers all have a chemical, plastic-like bitterness and smell to them."

"I put one fermentor in to cold crash and added gelatin a couple of days ago, and left the other one at ambient."

2a) Did you leave the room temp one in your fermenter bucket?
2b) If it tatests plasticy then id suspect your CC vessel, what is it?

2c) If these containers your CC in havent given off flavours in the past have you possibly modifyed or drilled them recently that may have brought the taste out? (crazy idea but you sound desperate)

And RIP to 100L of beer....

Just :icon_offtopic: but is your avatar pic of a hydrometer in your fermenter maxim0200?
its a good way to introduce infection - use your sample tube

 

[JDW81]

Just :icon_offtopic: but is your avatar pic of a hydrometer in your fermenter maxim0200?
its a good way to introduce infection - use your sample tube

Depends when he does it. I agree, once fermentation has started then leave the lid on and use the sample tube, but prior to pitching, provided your hydrometer is sanitised IMHO there isn't an issue.

JD.

 

[krausenhaus]

Thanks for all the suggestions. There's a few things I can rule out.

1) I don't think it's anything related to the brewing process, because on two occasions the problem has only occurred in half the batch.

2) I don't think it's any chemicals leeching from the plastic jerry cans. I have a mixture of them, some are fairly new, some are old, all of them get a good hot water soak after I buy them until any funny tastes are gone. Also, the beer can sit in them for three weeks and still taste fine until it gets to my CC/gelatine process.

The cloudiness and the taste/smell are related - they appear at the same time.

My gelatine process is to let it sit in cold water for 10-15min, microwave until it dissolves, add to fermentor. It gets added when the beer is already chilled at 1°C.

I've got some microbiology gear at my disposal so I'm going to investigate. I'm going to plate and incubate samples of the two beers above and see if they're harbouring different bugs. I'm also going to put some fresh wort through different stages of a mock fining/CC process and see if I can work out if there's a particular place they are picking up an infection.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

A simple wort stability test will rule out the wort being the problem.
It does appear to be part of your fining process, plating up some samples is your best bet.
Make sure you do some anaerobic plates.
Nev

 

[maxim0200]

Just :icon_offtopic: but is your avatar pic of a hydrometer in your fermenter maxim0200?
its a good way to introduce infection - use your sample tube

Off topic contiuned, sorry. Yes it is, i only do it pre yeast pitching with a hydrometer soaked in star san and if there isnt to much foam. I use the jar otherwise. Thanks for the tip though

 

[Thefatdoghead]

Thanks for all the suggestions. There's a few things I can rule out.

1) I don't think it's anything related to the brewing process, because on two occasions the problem has only occurred in half the batch.

2) I don't think it's any chemicals leeching from the plastic jerry cans. I have a mixture of them, some are fairly new, some are old, all of them get a good hot water soak after I buy them until any funny tastes are gone. Also, the beer can sit in them for three weeks and still taste fine until it gets to my CC/gelatine process.

The cloudiness and the taste/smell are related - they appear at the same time.

My gelatine process is to let it sit in cold water for 10-15min, microwave until it dissolves, add to fermentor. It gets added when the beer is already chilled at 1°C.

I've got some microbiology gear at my disposal so I'm going to investigate. I'm going to plate and incubate samples of the two beers above and see if they're harbouring different bugs. I'm also going to put some fresh wort through different stages of a mock fining/CC process and see if I can work out if there's a particular place they are picking up an infection.

 

[Thefatdoghead]

Thanks for all the suggestions. There's a few things I can rule out.

1) I don't think it's anything related to the brewing process, because on two occasions the problem has only occurred in half the batch.

2) I don't think it's any chemicals leeching from the plastic jerry cans. I have a mixture of them, some are fairly new, some are old, all of them get a good hot water soak after I buy them until any funny tastes are gone. Also, the beer can sit in them for three weeks and still taste fine until it gets to my CC/gelatine process.

The cloudiness and the taste/smell are related - they appear at the same time.

My gelatine process is to let it sit in cold water for 10-15min, microwave until it dissolves, add to fermentor. It gets added when the beer is already chilled at 1°C.

I've got some microbiology gear at my disposal so I'm going to investigate. I'm going to plate and incubate samples of the two beers above and see if they're harbouring different bugs. I'm also going to put some fresh wort through different stages of a mock fining/CC process and see if I can work out if there's a particular place they are picking up an infection.

Just a thought and I don't know for certain but I would have to say that microwaving gelatin might possibly denature it.
I only thought so because you can't microwave baby food.
Try just boiling your water then adding the gelatin when it's cooled to 70 degrees or less.
Worth a try if your method isn't clearing the beer.