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he's got his 2 million extra, stuff the people that actually make the business run right!

The interesting part is when you have people from the 99% defending the "right" of the 1% to increase their own million dollar salaries and not pass it on to the shareholder or employees.
 
havnt heard of any qantas fully crashing lately ? so my guess is some one is doing more than just turning up .

wonder if any any of the close calls of late have anything to do with the enormous pressure/workload that these slack pricks that just turn up are under?

Don't see any Virgin planes dropping out of the sky either.

No one disputes a fair day's work for a fair day's pay, but when you throw in demands such as the free international travel (upgradeable to business and first) a couple of times per year it becomes ridiculous. When you add all the other demands in, the extra $2m Joyce received is crumbs.

I sat next to a guy last year on a QF flight back from LA to Sydney who is a baggage handler working for Qantas in the US. He took a Friday and Monday off and decided to spend the weekend in Sydney. He only paid $150 for his return ticket - not bad.
 
last time I talked to someone from Virgin they paid 10% of the fare to get a ticket. Don't think that's bad either.... I wish my airline gave us even a 1% discount!!! tightarses. I'm going on strike ;)
 
Interesting graph from Alan Kohler


http://www.eurekareport.com.au/iis/iis.nsf...onDate=20111017.



I think everyone (possibly (hopefully)even the CEO's) think that CEO's are paid too much .

Having said that all of Qantas' competitors operate on a much lower costs base, they have to change all they'll end up broke like a lot of other airlines have. Qantas has averaged a 4% return on its equity in recent years, with figures like that they would be better off selling the lot and sticking the money in the bank.
 
i think a few of us get company discount in some way..The Prime minister get's less money than this a*hole and he only run's a airline

Aircraft incidents and accidents
Main article: List of Qantas fatal accidents

It is often claimed, most notably in the 1988 movie Rain Man, that Qantas has never had an aircraft crash.[79] While it is true that the company has neither lost a jet airliner nor had any jet fatalities, it had eight fatal accidents and an aircraft shot down between 1927 and 1945, with the loss of 63 people. Half of these accidents and the shoot-down occurred during World War II, when the Qantas aircraft were operating on behalf of Allied military forces. Post-war, it lost another two aircraft with the loss of 17 lives. To this date, the last fatal accident suffered by Qantas was in 1951.

Since the end of World War II, the following accidents and incidents have occurred:

On 7 April 1949, Avro Lancastrian VH-EAS swung on landing at Dubbo during a training flight, causing the gear to collapse. The aircraft was destroyed by fire, but the crew evacuated safely.[80]
On 16 July 1951, de Havilland Australia DHA-3 Drover VH-EBQ crashed off the coast of New Guinea (in the Huon Gulf near the mouth of the Markham River) after the centre engine's propeller failed. The pilot and the six passengers on board were killed. To date, this was the last fatal accident suffered by Qantas.[81]
On 24 August 1960, Lockheed Super Constellation VH-EAC crashed on take-off at Mauritius en route to the Cocos Islands. The take-off was aborted following an engine failure, the aircraft ran off the runway, and was destroyed by fire. There were no fatalities.[82]
On 23 September 1999, Boeing 747–400 VH-OJH, operating as Qantas Flight 1, overran the runway while landing at Bangkok, Thailand, during a heavy thunderstorm. The aircraft came to a stop on a golf course, but without fatalities. The Australian Transport Safety Bureau criticised numerous inadequacies in Qantas' operational and training processes.[83]
On 25 July 2008, Boeing 747–400 VH-OJK, en route from Hong Kong to Melbourne operating as Qantas Flight 30, suffered a rapid decompression[84] and made an emergency landing in Manila after an explosion. There were no injuries. The ATSB officially stated that the incident was caused by the failure of an oxygen tank.[85][86][87]
On 7 October 2008, Airbus A330-300 VH-QPA, travelling from Singapore to Perth as Qantas Flight 72, suffered a rapid loss of altitude in two sudden uncommanded pitch down manoeuvres causing serious injuries while 80 nautical miles (150 km) from Learmonth, Australia. The aircraft safely landed in Learmonth, with 14 people requiring transportation by air ambulance to Perth. Another 30 people also required hospital treatment, while an additional 30 people had injuries not requiring hospital treatment.[88] Initial investigations identified an inertial reference system fault in the Number-1 Air Data Inertial Reference Unit as the likely origin of the event. On receiving false indication of a very high angle of attack, the flight control systems commanded a pitch down movement, reaching a maximum of 8.5 degrees pitch down.[89]
On 4 November 2010 Qantas Flight 32, an Airbus A380 named "Nancy-Bird Walton" and registered VH-OQA, fitted with four Trent 972 engines manufactured by Rolls-Royce, suffered an uncontained turbine disc failure of its left inboard engine shortly after taking off from Singapore Changi Airport. The flight returned to Singapore and landed safely, and all 433 passengers and 26 crew on board survived uninjured. Cowling parts of the failed engine fell over Batam island, Indonesia
from wiki..have a look how many hicups since 2008 when Joyce became CEO of Qantas in November 2008
 
What is going on with CEOs of large companies these days? I believe the idea once upon a time was to reward them hansomely for increasing the profits for shareholders. It seems these days they want mega bonuses whether profits go up or not. I don't profess to understand everything that's going on at Qantas at the moment, but I have heard Qantas shareholders have not had any dividends for the past two years, but Joyce gets an extra two mil this year and he wont increase the groundies pay from $20 to $21 per hour....... he would rather wreck the company. Qantas was once a great Australian company, now thanks to a foreign CEO, it is moving 1/2 it's operations off shore and will be relying on dodgy maintenance. Buggered if I will ever fly with them again.


cheers

Browndog

I guess if I were on that flight last year out of Singapore where the turbine blew to pieces, or the one that flamed out shortly after, I to would be looking elseware. But old Qantas haven't had much luck in that department of late. I wonder who turned the spanners on those motor's last?
The fact that one of their aircraft hasn't wound up plunging into the earth is testimony to the cool heads and quality of their pilots.

**** Qantas anyway. Their flight staff seem to have been hired under some form of affirmative action or anti discrimination policy. Give me Singapore Air with their attentive, petite hosties sashaying up the isles dispensing smiles and hot towels with tongs any day.
Or at a pinch, Emirates.
 
Hes a champion. Wish theh could have kept the doors closed longer

Du99, politicians make their money in retiring benefits. Also when they talk about politiciabs salary, they dont incl the allowances, eg being leader of a house is like an extra 50%.
 
Nonsense.

Joyce grew some balls today. It is a business, not a 'centre of excellence'.
Qantas actually used to call their engineering business a 'centre of excellence', & it actually was. It set the world best practice that other airlines could only envy.

Problem is we hear all these claims for guaranteed payrises and guaranteed job protection. You would think there would be something offered in return - yet there has been no mention of anything the employees are offering for these greedy claims, other than just continuing to turn up!

Is requesting a payrise the same as the inflation rate greedy? Is asking that your job not be sent overseas unreasonable? If the CEO can get a 71% payrise for giving a negative shareholder return, then 3% for the employees doesn't seem too bad!

Don't see any Virgin planes dropping out of the sky either.

No one disputes a fair day's work for a fair day's pay, but when you throw in demands such as the free international travel (upgradeable to business and first) a couple of times per year it becomes ridiculous. When you add all the other demands in, the extra $2m Joyce received is crumbs.

I sat next to a guy last year on a QF flight back from LA to Sydney who is a baggage handler working for Qantas in the US. He took a Friday and Monday off and decided to spend the weekend in Sydney. He only paid $150 for his return ticket - not bad.

No-one except management gets free travel, & no-one is asking for it in their pay deal. A return ticket for QF staff to LA is actually several times more than that quoted, & more than covers the actual cost to Qantas. Qantas staff travel is a profit-making business section.

The 10% of the fare that people think that airline employees pay is from decades ago & no longer realistic. Todays employees pay around 40-50% of the going fare, but since it's impossible to plan a holiday when you're not sure if you can actually get on a plane due to it being already full mean that a lot of employees pay full fare, unless they can get on a last minute flight from LA-syd for the weekend.
 
Regardless of your position... (and i'm not sure where i stand as with all these things probably don't have enough information at hand to make an informed choice) there has been some pretty cool politics.

My fav so far is Joyce calling the Prime Minister (well leaving a message as she wouldn't take the call) and saying that if the government were to declare the industrial action illegal (exactly as the ombudsman has down now) the flight stoppage would never have occurred. :D he knew full well that with the current government's allegiance to the Unions the PM would never have made that decision. The PMs lack of action, down to not even returning the phone call highlights their inability make anything happen in this country.

and as for the salary increase... Joyce became CEO at a reduced rate compared to the outgoing CEO, years ago. It was always on the cards for the salary to be reinstated, regardless of the performance of the stock.
 
Qantas actually used to call their engineering business a 'centre of excellence', & it actually was. It set the world best practice that other airlines could only envy.



Is requesting a payrise the same as the inflation rate greedy? Is asking that your job not be sent overseas unreasonable? If the CEO can get a 71% payrise for giving a negative shareholder return, then 3% for the employees doesn't seem too bad!



No-one except management gets free travel, & no-one is asking for it in their pay deal. A return ticket for QF staff to LA is actually several times more than that quoted, & more than covers the actual cost to Qantas. Qantas staff travel is a profit-making business section.

The 10% of the fare that people think that airline employees pay is from decades ago & no longer realistic. Todays employees pay around 40-50% of the going fare, but since it's impossible to plan a holiday when you're not sure if you can actually get on a plane due to it being already full mean that a lot of employees pay full fare, unless they can get on a last minute flight from LA-syd for the weekend.

post of the day mikk B)

can't wait for the reply to this one.

Yard
 
Joyce did what he needed to do and it worked.

What bamboozles me is that people just run with the rhetoric and miss the core issues:

1. Qantas is bleeding cash. They are losing market share and as a brand (as evidenced by the share price) is shedding value at a rate of knots. (
scuse the pun!).

2. Major change is required to stem the tide of loss. Change agents (such as Joyce) are often bought in to make hard decisions and create the kind of environment where brands can be re-invigorated.

3. If faced with the choice of divesting 20-30% of the Australian workforce, to keep the rest employed, or fold the airline.... well, what would the detractors do?

4. The CEO's package has a number of key metrics or KPI's that are aligned to how he gets paid. These metrics are key to driving initiatives, behavior and outcomes that are set by a panel of business experts (the Qantas board). Attainment of these and over achievement is how the income for any given period is paid.

Over and above this, I have a deep distrust of trade unions. They seem to exist merely to sustain their administration and are really quite toothless - it's not until you get a high level of media interest that they actually do anything aside from collect fees and have lunch with other unions. Unions are a great idea but the practical experience of them in today's business environment is severely lacking from what they were designed to do.

Joyce is doing what he has to do. Without someone with balls and nous, Qantas will fail.

Cheers - Mike
 
Joyce is probably the fall guy for the restructuring of Qantas. Take the money now, take the blame and move on once the restructuring is complete. New CEO can blame the old CEO for the problems once Joyce has done his job and flies into the sunset.

Joyce could well become a "non-executive consultant adviser" and retains a healthy retainer in honour of the service he's done ripping the guts of Qantas out and shipping it out overseas, and breaking the Union locks on the employees.
 
Joyce is probably the fall guy for the restructuring of Qantas. Take the money now, take the blame and move on once the restructuring is complete. New CEO can blame the old CEO for the problems once Joyce has done his job and flies into the sunset.

Joyce could well become a "non-executive consultant adviser" and retains a healthy retainer in honour of the service he's done ripping the guts of Qantas out and shipping it out overseas, and breaking the Union locks on the employees.
If i could put money on this i would.
 
Joyce did what he needed to do and it worked.


3. If faced with the choice of divesting 20-30% of the Australian workforce, to keep the rest employed, or fold the airline.... well, what would the detractors do?

4. The CEO's package has a number of key metrics or KPI's that are aligned to how he gets paid. These metrics are key to driving initiatives, behavior and outcomes that are set by a panel of business experts (the Qantas board). Attainment of these and over achievement is how the income for any given period is paid.

It hasn't worked in his favour just yet.

What if it were your job being 'divested' ?

We all know what KPI's are and just how easy it is to cook the books and make it come in at %100.

cheers

Yard
 
It hasn't worked in his favour just yet.

What if it were your job being 'divested' ?

We all know what KPI's are and just how easy it is to cook the books and make it come in at %100.

cheers

Yard

Yeah, he's not there yet, but he's proven that he won't back down. I've been in organizations who have had multi-round redundancies (3 rounds in one place), luckily I've not personally been affected.

It's not a nice place to be and making people redundant is not a task that sane people relish. However, it's the upshot of where Qantas is at. At this level, the KPI's and their attainment is fairly public, audited etc - so opportunity to cook the books is probably not thaaat available.

I guess the flipside is that if the unions are prepared to have the whole ship go down - and their members agree - then so be it. But it doesn't have to be that way. This shit happens day in, day out remember. It's just that Qantas is so damned public that people are arcing up.

Cheers - Mike
 
QANTAS as a brand has been massively devalued, but it as the introduction of Jetstar that set them off on this path.
 

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