Can I ferment Lager at a higher temp?

[Mark_86]

I'm looking to brew something similer to a Lager but I'm not sure I would be able to keep a consistent temperature of below 15. I would probably only use extracts but might do a partial, still unsure.

I was wondering what the outcome would be if I was to just brew a batch at about 18-20? Maybe be a bit higher depending on the weather.

Or could I just swap the yeast for an ale yeast?

 

[slcmorro]

Sure you can. Anything over 15 though and it'll probably taste like a match-head i.e - sulphur.



If it were me, I'd swap it for an ale yeast as you suggest.

 

[Grott]

As per slcmorro I'd use a ale yeast and chill a lot of water to mix in the fermenter to start at a low temp (15-16). If your then able to put the fermenter in a box or even in a garbage bag, you could put a frozen 2 litre bottle of water in there each day to help with temp.
Cheers

 

[technobabble66]

Use S-189 at 15-18*C. You'll definitely smile lager.

 

[Weizguy]

S-189 or Bohemian lager yeast (W34/70). Also California lager.
The recommendation from Jamil, Dave Logsdon and Palmer is to use a real lager yeast, even if brewing at ale temps. Pretty sure you'll be able to find a BN podcast or a Brewing Radio podcast about it.
Enjoy your research.

 

[QldKev]

I'd stick with S-189, W34/70, California lager or Mangrove Jacks Workhorse.

 

[droid]

I sampled a nice pils style at a brewery last week and he uses us05 - it was very nice but technically the yeast determines the beer so you could argue that it was an ale with pilsner malt and carapils but I wouldn't have known by tasting it.

edit> sorry, so to clarify the above - if you used us05 you could do it around 18degC

 

[Blind Dog]

You can try S189, etc at ale temps, but IMO you'll still need to lager at less than 4C for a period of time (3-4weeks at 0C, but add a week for each degree above that, so 7-8 weeks if you're lagering at 4C) to get the yeast to clean up so you have a crisp, clean lager profile.

US05 at 15 or a little higher is pretty clean as is Nottingham at the same temps, and seems to drop clear more rapidly. In fact, I'd argue Nottingham is a better bet for what you're looking for. Neither should need lagering, and whilst they won't make 'lagers', they should get pretty damn close if you get the recipe right

 

[wynnum1]

If you have a freezer to make ice can put the fementer in a non working fridge or freezer i use 5 liter and 3 liter containers as bigger is better they last better and experimenting get close to required temperature and rotate ice containers frequently.

 

[TheWiggman]

Check this thread for some excellent discussion on this very topic: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/49743-swiss-lager-at-19-degrees-is-this-possible/

Bacchus do it and a few AHB members tried to emulate it. Like all things brewing, there's more to it than just the ferment temp and many variables that influence the final product. Pitch rate, condition, filtering, wort, moon phase etc.
I suggest reading up on it but if you can't cold crash by putting it in a fridge, probably be best to stick to ale yeasts. M10 workhorse it a good neutral yeast that might give the character you're after.

 

[Bruer]

There's a great brülosophy article about fermenting lagers at higher temps using w34/70. Looks like you can fun it at ale temps without much change. Haven't done so myself though.

 

[Dan Pratt]

I was planning a Fake Blonde Ale using W34-70 @ 15c with the intent to use that yeast cake for the Pilsner at 9c. good to read the above posts that at that temp it will be ok.

 

[Damn]

Yes you can brew a quality tasting lager at 18c. Check out this post and listen to the podcast. http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/88390-fermenting-same-lager-at-10c-vs-18c-comparison-on-brewing-radio/

 

[mckenry]

Mangrove Jacks new(ish) M54 Californian Lager is said to ferment at ale temps without producing sulphur. Nor does it require a long lagering period. Doesn't say what period it requires, but I assume that you'd treat it as an ale.
I have 3 packs to try out in the near future. Maybe you can take one for us/me and report back?

 

[Matplat]

I used M54 recently, 18deg all the way and it turned out a good beer for sure...

 

[pablo_h]

Now the weather is cooler and I can ferment at about 16C I was thinking of doing this to make a california common/steam beer.
What's the best dry yeast for this? I think the coopers website for cali common suggests S23, but "brewing classic styles" only give liquid yeast options unfortunately.
Any recommended other dry yeasts for this beer style besides MJ M54? Would S23 work anyway (I think I have a pack of that which gave me the idea of trying a cali common in the first place)?

 

[Matplat]

Although the M54 made decent beer, it wasn't as good as the 6 pack of anchor steam I had. I think Zainasheff is right, if you want a real cali common, you need the right liquid yeast.

 

[pablo_h]

Yeah, if I was trying for an anchor steam beer clone I would go the liquid yeast, but I'm not really trying for a clone, just more interested in the style of lager yeasts in an ale type beer like they historically did in california in the gold rush era.
I can't even remember what anchor steam tastes like. Only had it once years ago and if I don't brew it again I don't want to waste time and money on a liquid yeast if I don't re-use it.
I'm not really following a recipe in any fashion like malts and grains so don't need the exact yeast imo. Also putting me off liquid yeast is I have to rely on Auspost to get it, and they are a joke. Secondly until I know brew shops turn over of liquid yeast, I'm reluctant to buy old stock sight unseen.

I'm not really married to S23 yeast, research is putting me off that yeast, and I think two packs may be needed anyway and I only have one.

E: I'm just thinking of using a dry lager yeast of some sort now I can ferment at lower ambient temps. Also the 2nd fridge is empty (usually has water, soft drink and white wine in it during the warm months), so I could even lager the bottled brew.