British Ales Competition (vic) 2010 - May 16

[notung]

I have never entered a competition before but I find myself with 2 eligible brews this time. I should probably be able to get to G&G on the morning of the 8th but really doubt I could be at the judging. Would it still be possible to enter in this case, AND still get feedback from judges? After all I would not expect to be getting any trophies...

 

[Andyd]

Absolutely. If you drop off your entry at G&G it will get to the comp. As mentioned before, entry is via the website, and you will get filled out scoresheets with feedback (at this stage we anticipate electronically).

Andy

 

[brendo]

Don't forget guys that the cut off for homebrew shop drop offs is this Saturday at 12pm. You can of course bring your entry with you on the day - just make sure it is registered and paid for via British Ales Competition.

Cheers,

Brendo

 

[bcp]

AHB in Oakleigh are listed as a drop-off point and they know nothing about it. Can someone please contact them?

 

[brendo]

AHB in Oakleigh are listed as a drop-off point and they know nothing about it. Can someone please contact them?

thanks BCP...

 

[brettprevans]

AHB in Oakleigh are listed as a drop-off point and they know nothing about it. Can someone please contact them?

they knew nothing about brewing or just the comp? h34r: kidding

im going to be pushing it to get one of my entries in now as I dont think it will be ready to bottle until next week. damn. oh well 2 beers to enter.

 

[fraser_john]

No Corio Bay Brewers club affiliation on either entry form or website?

 

[hoppinmad]

No Corio Bay Brewers club affiliation on either entry form or website?

Yeah i noticed that too <_<

 

[brendo]

Yeah i noticed that too <_<

thanks guys - I will request it added asap!!

 

[hazard]

IPA is a style covered by the Worthog's Pale Ale Mania comp - we try to avoid crossover between the comps, hence why there is also no stouts/porters, etc.

Save your IPA for Pale Ale Mania - good to try your hand at lots of different comps!!

Cheers,

Brendo

Errr - and wouldn't Bitter/ Special Bitter/ ESB also be covered by pale Ale mania?

Slightly OT perhaps, but in context since they are british beers - just what is the difference between Bitter and Pale Ale? According to many texts they are the same thing, but there are different categories in Aust Home Brew competition IIRC??

 

[Fourstar]

Errr - and wouldn't Bitter/ Special Bitter/ ESB also be covered by pale Ale mania?

Not really according to AABC guidelines (the way they are grouped anyway).

In a nutshell an English Pale Ale is an English Bitter without crystal characteristics (so noticable nutty/biscuit malt characteristics etc) and hightened hop presence. Basically a scaled down EIPA. TTL fits this category.

 

[brendo]

Corio is now listed on the site guys.

Cheers,

Brendo

 

[brendo]

Errr - and wouldn't Bitter/ Special Bitter/ ESB also be covered by pale Ale mania?

Slightly OT perhaps, but in context since they are british beers - just what is the difference between Bitter and Pale Ale? According to many texts they are the same thing, but there are different categories in Aust Home Brew competition IIRC??

It is an ongoing debate within the AABC Guidelines. Pale Ale Mania is supposed to be an English Pale Ale, which as per the AABC is different - however slight this might be.

 

[hazard]

Not really according to AABC guidelines (the way they are grouped anyway).

In a nutshell an English Pale Ale is an English Bitter without crystal characteristics (so noticable nutty/biscuit malt characteristics etc) and hightened hop presence. Basically a scaled down EIPA. TTL fits this category.

Actually, if you look at Pale Ale Mania winners in 2009, top 3 places in the English pale ale ALL used crystal.

1st Place Michael Van der heyden

7.5 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White)​

2.0 kg Munich, Light (Joe White) (9.0 SRM)​

0.5 kg Caramalt (Joe White)

2nd place John Strantzen

3.51 kg Baird Maris Otter (6 EBC) (62.3 %)​

1.76 kg Weyermann Dark Munich (20 EBC) (31.3%)​

286 g Weyermann Cara Amber (70 EBC) (5.1 %)​

72 g Weyermann Cara Aroma (350 EBC) (1.3 %)

3rd place Paul Bowlen

11.0 kg Maris Otter Pale​

2.0 kg Weyermann Vienna​

1.0 kg Joe White Wheat​

300 g Weyermann Melanoidin​

350 g Weyermann Cara Amber

So, with respect, I ask again - what is difference between pale ale and bitter. Pale Ale clearly contains crystal, and IO can enter my ESB into this comp no worries as a Pale Ale, any other thoughts? And even if TTL does not have crtsytal, the last fresh bottle I had contained a definite caramel flavour, which is why many people caramelise the wort when cloning TTL - which is a similar effect to crystal (or caramel in the USA) malt.

 

[razz]

Sounds like you get to enter the one beer in two comps Hazard. Lucky you!

 

[brendo]

So, with respect, I ask again - what is difference between pale ale and bitter. Pale Ale clearly contains crystal, and IO can enter my ESB into this comp no worries as a Pale Ale, any other thoughts? And even if TTL does not have crtsytal, the last fresh bottle I had contained a definite caramel flavour, which is why many people caramelise the wort when cloning TTL - which is a similar effect to crystal (or caramel in the USA) malt.

I don't disagree with you one bit Hazard... I think it is a relatively artificial difference, but nobody said the AABC guidelines are perfect.

Looks like you have two comps to enter it in if you want to - give you plenty of feedback and time to perfect it for Vicbrew.

Brendo

 

[Fourstar]

Actually, if you look at Pale Ale Mania winners in 2009, top 3 places in the English pale ale ALL used crystal.

So, with respect, I ask again - what is difference between pale ale and bitter. Pale Ale clearly contains crystal, and IO can enter my ESB into this comp no worries as a Pale Ale, any other thoughts? And even if TTL does not have crtsytal, the last fresh bottle I had contained a definite caramel flavour, which is why many people caramelise the wort when cloning TTL - which is a similar effect to crystal (or caramel in the USA) malt.

As i said, it should not have crystal characteristics. (Athough doesn't mean you cant use crystal malt if that makes any sense?!) Have a read of the AABC guidelines (section 6.6). Some fat to chew below. :icon_cheers:

During this period, Bitter emerged as a darker, draught
version of Pale Ale, featuring crystal malt. [/b]Today the term “Pale
Ale” has lost much of its former cachet - examples of the style are
commonly labeled IPA or various proprietary names.

Ingredients: Well-modified English floor-malted pale ale malt (eg.
Maris Otter, Halcyon, Golden Promise), suitable for single
temperature infusion mashing. Classic or modern UK hop varieties.
Fruity English yeast strains. Sulphate or chloride water, free of
carbonate.

Honestly, if the beers that placed in Pale Ale Mania displayed crystal malt characteristics and tasted like English bitters they where judged incorrectly, especially if given really high scores. (40's).

Looking at the results, the highest avg was 36-37. So well crafted beers and within most style parameters but lacking some finesse/stylistic accuracy.

Put it sthis way, TTL is nothing like a Fullers London Pride, ESB, or Ringwood 49er. They display big crystal characteristics with complex british malt. TTL is slightly more hop focused with a less complex malt palate. Some kettle caramelization/toffe flavours as you note, but again this doesnt represtent crystal malt characters.

I had a bit of a discussion with Tony Wheeler @ Beerfest this year regarding the whole Bitter/Pale Ale thing. Infact i shot myself in the foot with my TTL clone by entering it as a Best Bitter when it should have been an EPA. I was a little dizzy about the differences between styles for a while too. Just give the guidelines a read, it will make sense then.

:icon_cheers:

 

[manticle]

Put it sthis way, TTL is nothing like a Fullers London Pride, ESB, or Ringwood 49er. They display big crystal characteristics with complex british malt. TTL is slightly more hop focused with a less complex malt palate. Some kettle caramelization/toffe flavours as you note, but again this doesnt represtent crystal malt characters.

I had a bit of a discussion with Tony Wheeler @ Beerfest this year regarding the whole Bitter/Pale Ale thing. Infact i shot myself in the foot with my TTL clone by entering it as a Best Bitter when it should have been an EPA. I was a little dizzy about the differences between styles for a while too. Just give the guidelines a read, it will make sense then.

:icon_cheers:

Yes but then there's beers that fall in both categories - bitter and hoppy but malty and caramel. My current fave (Youngs SLA) is a good example. I may enter a bottle into the comp but the clarity is lacking and I'm not sure I can get a bottle to drop off points or the actual comp in time.

I guess it's just a matter of accepting that style guidelines are simply guidelines, not style restrictions. No-one's going to make a million dollars from winning a comp so if you think it vaguely fits - enter it and take the scores and feedback with a grain of salt, no matter whether you win or whether you come bottom (unless infection was the reason). Competitions need some standard on which to judge as beer tasting is very subjective. Style guidelines and basic beer faults seem like a good beginning point.

At the end of the day - chuck it in and get an ego stroke if you win and some good, honest feedback if you don't.

 

[hoppinmad]

Corio is now listed on the site guys.

Cheers,

Brendo

Unfortunately already got my entry in

 

[brendo]

Unfortunately already got my entry in

Sorry the site got pulled together pretty quickly as a pilot - Andyd has updated yours and father-john's details retrospectively in the system.