Cloud Surfer
Well-Known Member
That's a very neat way of trapping and collecting your trub. I'm not sure how well that would work for me, as I'm using the false bottom on the BrewZilla, and the trub trapper would have to sit on that.
BrewZilla 65L
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Malted Mick
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duncbrewer
Well-Known Member
The Guten didn't come with a false bottom so I had to seek an alternative. But no false bottom does mean I can see what could go in the drain hole rather than finding out once I lift it up or see it in the fermenter. I did find the false bottom on the robobrew worked well but I did have more loss ( left behind ) in the kettle.
I used to wonder whether a fine mesh dam in a sort of quarter circle ( using same mesh as hop spider ) attached under the false bottom ( probably wired on using those convenient holes) a few cm away from the drain hole would hold back the really fine stuff.
Never got to try it though, but would if I was still using the robobrew, although it might be a good thing on the side of the trub trapper and would also help it to go in the right position. I might look into that.
I used to wonder whether a fine mesh dam in a sort of quarter circle ( using same mesh as hop spider ) attached under the false bottom ( probably wired on using those convenient holes) a few cm away from the drain hole would hold back the really fine stuff.
Never got to try it though, but would if I was still using the robobrew, although it might be a good thing on the side of the trub trapper and would also help it to go in the right position. I might look into that.
Cloud Surfer
Well-Known Member
Mick, without the false bottom, what do you use to stop trub getting sucked through your pump?
Is there a reason you don’t use it, what’s the advantage?
Is there a reason you don’t use it, what’s the advantage?
Malted Mick
Well-Known Member
I have a modified set up. I do not use the false bottom or overflow pipe. I also block the malt pipe handle holes with plastic plugs and use hop bags. I have never had a pump blockage to date. The break goes through the pump ok, it is grain that will block the pump.
The reason I do not use the false bottom is that the break settles out on top of it. I try to get the break to the bottom below my top offtake point. I have a helix coil slightly stretched on the bottom offtake. I open the top valve first untill it runs dry, then the bottom one. The last stage is a very slow trickle as it is going through the coil. Next step will be the trub dame, which I am going to set up this afternoon. I know some break is not a problem in the wort but I am trying to reduce the amount going into the fermenter.
The reason I do not use the false bottom is that the break settles out on top of it. I try to get the break to the bottom below my top offtake point. I have a helix coil slightly stretched on the bottom offtake. I open the top valve first untill it runs dry, then the bottom one. The last stage is a very slow trickle as it is going through the coil. Next step will be the trub dame, which I am going to set up this afternoon. I know some break is not a problem in the wort but I am trying to reduce the amount going into the fermenter.
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duncbrewer
Well-Known Member
Mick I see that the Brewzilla has a slightly different pump intake being raised wheras it's flush on the guten.
How about recirculating through a hop spider to catch some of the break or using a hop bag as a filter, could that work?
The problem is that the break is so soft it doesn't form a decent solid lump and just drifts with the wort.
Bring on the homebrew centrifuge.
How about recirculating through a hop spider to catch some of the break or using a hop bag as a filter, could that work?
The problem is that the break is so soft it doesn't form a decent solid lump and just drifts with the wort.
Bring on the homebrew centrifuge.
Cloud Surfer
Well-Known Member
Nice setup Mick.
Malted Mick
Well-Known Member
It's a research and development exercise for me get the trub/break transfer into the fermenter down to an acceptable level. Equally important for me is keep my brew day simple and efficent time wise. I am not recommending Brewzilla owners punch out a extra take off by any means. I had the same results by using a siphon to take off the high level wort above the break. Next step is to try dunc's trub dam! Will get some good photos of the next brew a hazy NEIPA and post how it goes.
Cloud Surfer
Well-Known Member
I don't plan any major mods to my BrewZilla. I really liked how I had it setup for the first brew. Next time I just want to get a better whirlpool which I think I will with what I learnt from my first go.
I pulled my Pliny The Elder clone out of the fermenter today into keg for another round of hopping. That's 300g of hops I've used now and it smells and tastes like a beautiful hop bomb. I put the hydrometer sample in the fridge and it dropped crystal clear, so I've managed to get all of the trub out of it finally.
Mick, its really important to understand the difference between Hot and Cold Break.
Its important to keep hot break out of the ferment, cold break on the other hand is (up to a point) beneficial in the ferment. In some beers made from low spec malt or with lots of adjunct (unmalted grain) you can get too much cold break, but lets just say you have to work at it.
Hot break and hop debris settles out pretty quickly, cold break on the other hand is very light and fluffy, it can take days to settle and compact the way hot break will in a matter of minutes.
I think if you did a brew and no chilled rather than using the immersion chiller should let you workout how much to leave in the kettle so your sure the hot break is excluded. Then let the cold break go into the fermenter with your wort you will get the volume you are looking for and the wort quality. Should save a lot of sitting around waiting for somethin to happen that is inherently slow.
Mark
Its important to keep hot break out of the ferment, cold break on the other hand is (up to a point) beneficial in the ferment. In some beers made from low spec malt or with lots of adjunct (unmalted grain) you can get too much cold break, but lets just say you have to work at it.
Hot break and hop debris settles out pretty quickly, cold break on the other hand is very light and fluffy, it can take days to settle and compact the way hot break will in a matter of minutes.
I think if you did a brew and no chilled rather than using the immersion chiller should let you workout how much to leave in the kettle so your sure the hot break is excluded. Then let the cold break go into the fermenter with your wort you will get the volume you are looking for and the wort quality. Should save a lot of sitting around waiting for somethin to happen that is inherently slow.
Mark
Well my first brew on the Brewzilla 65L was a bit of disaster. Essentially I had very little to no flow through the malt pipe. I (eventually) raised the malt pipe and the only way I could get any sort of flow coming out of it was by scraping grain away from the mesh screen on the bottom of the malt pipe to allow the wort to drain out. I assumed my crush is too fine however I've brewed on a Braumeister for years never had an issue like this (using the same mill). However a quick test with a credit card had the card sliding through the gap in the mill so not sure? Didn't have a chance to test with feeler gauges but will check again later and confirm. I also used a good amount of rice hulls - I had about 4% oats and 8% flaked wheat - which I probably wouldn't have bothered with on the Braumeister but wanted to be cautious. Any ideas for next time? I set the unit up as per the instructions (false bottom in the kettle and screen on the bottom of the malt pipe) with the exception of the top plate as the pipe was too full and I couldn't get it on.
I ended up with about 40L into the fermenter at 1056 so not a complete disaster in the end though probably took me about 2hrs longer than it should have!
I ended up with about 40L into the fermenter at 1056 so not a complete disaster in the end though probably took me about 2hrs longer than it should have!
Malted Mick
Well-Known Member
My mill is set at 0.80mm and a credit card is around 0.75mm. Your crush seems very similar. When I mash on my 35L I find it is hands on for the full mash with a combination of lots of scrapping of the malt pipe bottom screen and adjustment of the pump return volume. Hence I do not use the overflow and block the lifting handle holes. I have just set up for a brew tommorrow with a Dunc's Dam, no false bottom. Will take some video of the process, it sounds like your malt pipe screen is blocking. Do you have the double screens on your malt pipe?
Cloud Surfer
Well-Known Member
I hope you figure this out. I had no issue with circulating through the mash, and my sparge was way too fast through the mash for my liking.
Out of interest how much malt did you use, and what volume of strike water did you use? I was surprised by the 10L of water that’s below the bottom of the malt pipe, so just curious how others are setting it up.
I have the bottom screen on the malt pipe but not the top one - also had the false bottom in there but that wasn't the issue - the issue was the lack of flow out of the malt pipe. Hopefully there's no too much mucking around with stirring etc on brewday - coming from a Braumeister which is set and forget pretty much. No issues with stuck mashes because the wort flows bottom to top not top to bottom.
@Cloud Surfer I used 40L strike water and 12kg of grain
Cloud Surfer
Well-Known Member
Good stuff, that’s exactly what I would have used. 2.5L/kg +10L for the volume below the malt pipe.
duncbrewer
Well-Known Member
I use about 3 litres per kg, I have started to use Glucanase enzyme instead of oat hulls if there is going to be lots of sticky adjuncts, it doesn't add volume to the grain bill. Head retention etc seems fine.
I do find that I have to start off slow with the flow but come the end of the mash the pump flow is flat out.
My mill is set to 0.9 mm but it is a Maltzilla and that doesn't force a lot of flour out of the husks.
Still getting 76% efficiency but tempted to go narrower at least for part of the milling to see if this improves efficiency and slows the sparging down.
Not sure what Mark is referencing pumped from bottom to top, isn't that what happens with the brewzilla?
I do find that I have to start off slow with the flow but come the end of the mash the pump flow is flat out.
My mill is set to 0.9 mm but it is a Maltzilla and that doesn't force a lot of flour out of the husks.
Still getting 76% efficiency but tempted to go narrower at least for part of the milling to see if this improves efficiency and slows the sparging down.
Not sure what Mark is referencing pumped from bottom to top, isn't that what happens with the brewzilla?
To clarify, Braumeister pumps from the bottom of the mash tun forcing wort up through the malt pipe and grain bed, it then spills over the top of the malt pipe and back into the mash tun. Brewzilla draws the wort at the bottom and pumps it up via a pipe on the outside of the vessel where it then re-enters the malt pipe back at the top. Thus you don't get a stuck mash (or at least very unlikely to) with a Braumeister but units that behave as per the Brewzilla it is certainly possible as you're relying on gravity for the wort to go back down through the grain bed and potentially the grain bed becoming compacted during the mash recirculation.
duncbrewer
Well-Known Member
I see so the grains " stay floating " with the braumeister, wheras they are sinking and being washed down with the Brewzilla types. Thank you must look it up.
Malted Mick
Well-Known Member
Exactly as described on my Brewzillia Dunc, hence I have to stir and scrap the bottom during the mash to stop compaction. Doing a Hazy Daisy NEIPA today and all is going well. 30 minutes into the boil! Got the Dunc's Dam fitted, going to be interesting to see how it works.
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