Brewers Please Give Your Honest A Opinion

[QldKev]

Back to all seriousness, (if your still talking to me)

So far you've had,
invites by at least one local brewer to help out, including the supply of their water that they are happy to brew with, (I would jump on meeting a local brewer)
an invite to the brewing group in Perth (also heaps of people to chat with)
ideas/recipes to go back to a basic ale, which helps hides more mistakes and cheaper to make until you get the concepts sorted,
a local supplier (talking on Nev's behalf) would be happy to help sort you out with recipes and supply it at a decent price.

If you was local I would invite you around for a brew day, as I think that is the best way to learn about brewing and put it all together.

Good luck with your brewing from here


QldKev

 

[Bogan333]

Back to all seriousness, (if your still talking to me)

So far you've had,
invites by at least one local brewer to help out, including the supply of their water that they are happy to brew with, (I would jump on meeting a local brewer)
an invite to the brewing group in Perth (also heaps of people to chat with)
ideas/recipes to go back to a basic ale, which helps hides more mistakes and cheaper to make until you get the concepts sorted,
a local supplier (talking on Nev's behalf) would be happy to help sort you out with recipes and supply it at a decent price.

If you was local I would invite you around for a brew day, as I think that is the best way to learn about brewing and put it all together.

Good luck with your brewing from here


QldKev

Thank you QldKev, Beaning new it was a hard to keep up with many comments. And I do thank every one who put in.
I didn't realise that nev and Gryphon Brewing was in the same person, I was looking for a shop front.
I have been brewing Extract beers for over 20 years, moving to AG this year it is very exciting. I realise what I have learned in the pass,
I will need to wrought every out the window and start fresh.

So please Thank you to all

 

[pbrosnan]

I hope Brewmart bought you a drink before ******* you that hard.

Lots of useful comments here. I agree with the sensible comments that the grain, hop and yeast all look OK. I don't really know what a biscuit taste would be but off flavours in a lager usually come from too higher temperature in the ferment, unless there's an infection of course but it doesn't sound like you've got that. How long did it take to get to your FG?

 

[pbrosnan]

I realise this but seriously, 380% ? Brewmart is a walk-in shop. How much do they think their labour is worth? 500g should be about 200% on the sack price (roughly $2.50 for base malts), and I know places where it is.

I never by grain or hops from BrewMart, I buy that stuff from Nev. I but dried malt extract for starters from BrewMart. But BrewMart is a great place for picking up other bits and pieces. Neil has done a good job of stocking a lot an ancillary brew gear like kegs, taps, urns etc. I'd say that it's a cut above most brew shops and a lot closer that TWOC. But it is, like most brew shops, expensive. An as to the biscuit taste, I see that your ferment time is about normal so I'd be looking at the mash temp and making sure you're not cooking stuff. Or else having my taste buds checked.

 

[Fish13]

i use nev's services and i am 200km's away from the bloke. I think he even services guys in geraldton and karatha....

Thanks too nev the nuts and o-rings arrived yesterday. I was hoping to drop in sometime tomorrow to have alook at the hermit.

 

[Bogan333]

Lots of useful comments here. I agree with the sensible comments that the grain, hop and yeast all look OK. I don't really know what a biscuit taste would be but off flavours in a lager usually come from too higher temperature in the ferment, unless there's an infection of course but it doesn't sound like you've got that. How long did it take to get to your FG?

in the first AG to get to FG 13 days and that was with 14 g Coopers Brewing dry Yeast
To my taste buds it was well like wheat bix over powering

Second AG 14 day to get to FG with 15g English Ale dry Yeast
Taste: not bad could drink it not a problem but did have little wheat bix taste at the end taste.

Third AG still Fermenting since last monday I used 15g Brew Cellar Premium Lager dry Yeast.
I had a taste of the wort it was very sweet with a very small a mount of a wheat bix taste

On all three brews 60 min's mash lenght at 65c to 67c

 

[Fish13]

and a simple all grain recipe that costs me not much is this one

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...amp;recipe=1499

just scale up for the 23l batch.

works out at about $15 a batch

 

[Bogan333]

I will be going of to a Masterclass All Grain Brewing Course in June
Beer Production course on a 4 day full-time basis at Little Creatures

 

[DJR]

in the first AG to get to FG 13 days and that was with 14 g Coopers Brewing dry Yeast
To my taste buds it was well like wheat bix over powering

Second AG 14 day to get to FG with 15g English Ale dry Yeast
Taste: not bad could drink it not a problem but did have little wheat bix taste at the end taste.

Third AG still Fermenting since last monday I used 15g Brew Cellar Premium Lager dry Yeast.
I had a taste of the wort it was very sweet with a very small a mount of a wheat bix taste

On all three brews 60 min's mash lenght at 65c to 67c

All dry yeast there, perhaps there is your issue... I am not sure what the weetbix taste is but take up the offer of meeting other brewers or get your homebrew shop guys to have a taste...

I would seriously go back to basics on the brewing front, go with a simple 95% Pilsner/Pale 5% Wheat, two additions of hops - one for about 30IBUs at 60mins and about 20-30g at flameout of a good hop e.g. hallertau/amarillo or something, ferment outside the kegerator with Wyeast 1056 or 1272, if you are using whitelabs then WLP001

Will be a bit boring (i guess you'd call the style blonde/kolsch) but you will get a handle on whether it is your mash or something else. What temperature are you sparging with, you might be leaching tannins if your pH is too high or your temperature is too high.

If you are using spring water are you adding calcium into the mash, maybe gypsum or calcium chloride? Not enough calcium might be causing high pH and tannin extraction or you are oversparging

 

[Drowro]

George
TWOC also do a monthly brew day. Roy uses two methods, a 3 vessel HERMS setup and a bucket in bucket method. It's normally on a Sunday and he posts up the date he is doing it on his website. This is where I have learned to AG brew and I started four months ago so I'm in a similar position to yourself. I have been a number of times to focus on different parts of the process and too mainly talk to Roy and tap into his vast knowledge of brewing. He has been at it for many years. You can also pick up some supplies while you are there. He is open 7 days which is something I like.

Good luck.
Rodders.

 

[Bogan333]

All dry yeast there, perhaps there is your issue... I am not sure what the weetbix taste is but take up the offer of meeting other brewers or get your homebrew shop guys to have a taste...

I would seriously go back to basics on the brewing front, go with a simple 95% Pilsner/Pale 5% Wheat, two additions of hops - one for about 30IBUs at 60mins and about 20-30g at flameout of a good hop e.g. hallertau/amarillo or something, ferment outside the kegerator with Wyeast 1056 or 1272, if you are using whitelabs then WLP001

Will be a bit boring (i guess you'd call the style blonde/kolsch) but you will get a handle on whether it is your mash or something else. What temperature are you sparging with, you might be leaching tannins if your pH is too high or your temperature is too high.

If you are using spring water are you adding calcium into the mash, maybe gypsum or calcium chloride? Not enough calcium might be causing high pH and tannin extraction or you are oversparging

Sparging at 75c and making sure what's go's out is the same going in. With the spring water no I have not added any calcium or gypsum I had know ideal about that until today in one of the comments that was made. So I have been reading up on that all day.

 

[QldKev]

I'm wondering if maybe the shop has mixed up their grains and if giving you a high proportion of biscuit malt. If you get your next batch from Nev or any other shop, different from where you have been getting it it may all come good.

I would not start messing with salts, unless you are going to use rain water. I would concentrate on the basics, and make a good beer first. Most homebrew shops have a product called 5.2, maybe throw some of that in. I would find the local brewer who offered to supply the water he uses for brewing, have a chat with them, invite them over for the brew day and use their known water source.

If you want to keep using the spring water, post up the analysis of it and we can have a look if it is ok for brewing. Some springs water has very high bicarb levels that would give a hardness to the final product. I would not say a biscuit taste, but maybe it's that what you perceive as it.

By the last comment, with sparging at 75 and ensuring what is going out is the same as whats going it, I assume that means you are fly sparging. With fly sparging it's possible to over sparge and pull out some astringencies. What is your procedure for this step.


QldKev

 

[Jazzafish]

First All Grain
Grain Bill
Joe White Traditional Ale 4 kg
Joe White Wheat Malt .500 g
Maltodextrin .400 g
Dextrose .600 g
Rice Hulls .500 g

Hop Bill
SPOR 18.00g 60min's Boil
SPOR 15g 10 mins Boil
Galaxy 15g 10 min's Boil
SPOR 15 g Flame out
Galaxy 15 g Flame out
Whirlfloc 1g 15 min's boil
14 g Coopers Brewing Yeast

Fermentation 14 Days

Just a over powering biscuit taste went down the sink undrinkable


Second ALL Grain
Grain Bill
Joe White Traditional Ale 4.5 kg
Joe White Munich Light Malt .500 g
Joe White Crystal Light Malt .250 g
Joe White Chocolate Malt .100 g
Rice Hulls .500 g

Hop Bill
SPOR 15g 60min's Boil
SPOR 10g 10 mins Boil

Whirlfloc 1g 15 min's boil
15g English Ale Yeast

Fermentation 14 Days

It was drinkable No bitterness taste a little biscuit taste no where near like my best Extract brew

Third ALL Grain
This is a 25L batch size

Grain Bill
5.673kg JW EXPORT PILSNER MALT
630g JW MUNICH LIGHT MALT
315gm JW CRYSTAL LIGHT
126gm JW WHEAT MALT


Hop Bill
SPOR Flowers 35g 60min's Boil
SPOR Flowers 16g 40 min's Boil
SPOR Flowers 15g 15min's Boil
SPOR Flowers 15g 0 min's Aroma
Galaxy Pellet 15g 0 min;s Aroma

Whirlfloc 1 Talbet 15 min's boil
15g Brew Cellar Premium Lager Yeast

The Brew day was 30/04/2012 current in my Kegerator at 15c
A taste of the wort sweet with a very small amount of biscuit taste

when the Primary fermentation is done I will rack the beer and than see how long the Secondary fermentation takes
I will store it for about 4 weeks in the old fridge at very low temperature before I keg it

Apologies if someone covered this already. On limited downtime and only read a few pages of this topic.

My point:
If your still learning AG brewing, pick one easy to brew recipe and brew it until you nail it. If your getting something you don't like in the flavour, change one thing at a time to figure out what it is your not liking. If you have brewed 5 completely different beers, it is hard to point out where the flavour is coming from...

I suggest you find a commercial ale that you like, and start by brewing a recipe inspired by it that other home brewers have had success with. Then brew it again to prove your process is sound. EG: clone your own beer. From that point, make changes like... "I wonder what changing this hop to that hop will do to the flavour." One thing at a time and take notes. You will learn a shit load.

Fermentation is the most important thing in brewing. Great move with the fridge and temp controller. Just have a look at pitching rates with your yeast additions.

Lastly, you mentioned brewing salts. I don't think this is the right time to play with them. I'd go to the extreme and say that Australian water is generally within acceptable ranges for brewing water. But to be sure, do you have your water report and what does it tell you?

If your cooking spaghetti, liken the malt to the pasta, yeast to the sauce, hops to the herbs and the water chemistry to salt and pepper. If you take the salt and pepper away, you can still make tasty spaghetti... same for beer. In terms of priority you have to nail the other elements before water chemistry. If your ferment is an issue, all the water chemistry in the world won't save you.

 

[keifer33]

I was doing some reading last night and came across thst contamination with caustic can intensify the biscuity flavour as it alters the ph. What are you using to clean things? Its a long shot but worth a try. It seems the intensity of biscuity ness is dying down with each brew from your notes.

 

[Parks]

I would definitely be trying a fresh wort kit - Craftbrewer sells them (Sponsored link at the top) and looks like they deliver for $8.

That should give you and idea whether or not it's your fermentation process or wort production process.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Get into some SMaSH brews (Single Malt and Single Hop) - or at least a low number of malts (say a 90/10 or 95/5 split) and one, maybe two hops at the most.

Cheaper and you can nail the process pretty well.

My basic APA recipe (I can interchange the ingredients pretty freely and end up with a good result) is:

1. Get brewmate (www.brewmate.net)
2. 5kg Base Ale Malt (usually TF Perle, but Golden Promise, Barret Burston Ale or TF FM Maris Otter can be used), and .5 of spec malt (usually crystal plus rye). Mash at 64 degrees (brewmate will work out your strike temp).
3. 15 IBU of [insert American/NZ/New age Aussie Hop here] at 30 minutes.
4. 15 IBU of [insert hops] at 10 minutes.
5. US 05.

Easy to do, brew mate will work out the quantities for you, and it hides most of the brewer's faults.

 

[stux]

i use nev's services and i am 200km's away from the bloke. I think he even services guys in geraldton and karatha....

Thanks too nev the nuts and o-rings arrived yesterday. I was hoping to drop in sometime tomorrow to have alook at the hermit.

I buy stuff from Nev and I'm in Sydney

 

[SJW]

i really dont understand what you're meaning here. :blink: please explain?

Sorry Sim, I will spell it out for you. If you had read the entier thread earlier they were talking about 380% mark up on small amounts of grain. My point is.....if you gave a good local HBS they should not be screwing you for small amounts of grain even though they are entitiled to charge more for the extra handling of small amounts.

Steve

 

[Malted]

Third AG still Fermenting since last monday I used 15g Brew Cellar Premium Lager dry Yeast.

Brew Cellar state that the Premium lager yeast CAN be brewed at 12-18oC but I would be scared of brewing a lager at 18oC. Don't expect it to be good beer and don't expect it to be a lager.

Get your fermentation fridge temperature controller sorted! This is a very basic thing but can make a huge difference. This is just one of a number of the little things that make the difference between apparently good beer and fantastic beer.

I assume you are moving to all grain beers after 20 years of goop brewing because you want to make better beer/experiment with flavours/get more satisfaction etc? Even good goop beer needs temperature controlled fermentation to make it good. I am suprised that you do not already have a temperature controlling device after so long in the goop game.

Not trying to be rude but did you learn anything during 20 years of goop brewing or did you just follow the can label everytime? Following the label makes beer, doing stuff that is not on the label/directions makes great beer.

Sounds to me like you are trying to brew all grain beer according to the goop can directions.

 

[Parks]

Sorry Sim, I will spell it out for you. If you had read the entier thread earlier they were talking about 380% mark up on small amounts of grain. My point is.....if you gave a good local HBS they should not be screwing you for small amounts of grain even though they are entitiled to charge more for the extra handling of small amounts.

Steve

Your statement was still ambiguous.

Of course you meant I get 200g at the same price per kg as a tonne, but you didn't say that.