Rooftop Red Style Recipe

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ausdb

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In the past there have been a few posts regarding the Rooftop Red lager from Matilda bay, some like it some hate it but I am in the first camp I dont mind a few and managed to find it in stubbbies at the bottle shop last night.

I want to try and brew something like it, looking at the matilday bay website they give the following hints
4.7% abv
60EBC
29IBU
Using carared and melanoidin and hersbrucker as aroma hops

Here is where I am at with my recipe formulation, can anyone give me any suggestions. The first one was using only carared and melanoidin for the colour but the colour is way down and I think the 60EBC is wrong? I also couldnt see a commercial brewery using specialty malts for 40% of the grist bill. I went off the weyermann web site for the ~20% max figures for the carared and melanoidin but also I dont think you would use 20% of each of them in the one recipe anyway.

Rooftop_carared & melanoidin

Batch Size (L): 30.00 Wort Size (L): 30.00
Total Grain (kg): 7.03
Anticipated OG: 1.054 Plato: 13.31
Anticipated EBC: 30.6
Anticipated IBU: 28.7
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Grain/Extract/Sugar
% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
28.5 2.00 kg. Bairds Pilsener Great Britian 1.036 4
28.5 2.00 kg. Weyermann Munich I Germany 1.038 15
21.7 1.53 kg. Weyermann Melanoidin Germany 1.037 70
21.3 1.50 kg. Weyermann Carared Germany 1.036 48

Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
28.00 g. Hallertau Northern Brewer Pellet 8.50 25.6 60 min.
14.48 g. Perle WCB Plug 3.20 2.4 30 min.
7.24 g. Hallertauer WCB Plug 2.50 0.5 15 min.
7.24 g. Hallertauer WCB Plug 2.50 0.3 5 min.


I then had another go but substituted the carared for caramunich TIII as I dont have carared (Is it available in Perth??) which could possibly go a bit more caramunich for colour but I dont want to overdo the crystal effect. Would 30g of
Carafa TI have any flavour effect as it gets the colour up a few notches?

Rooftop_second_try

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 30.00 Wort Size (L): 30.00
Total Grain (kg): 6.41
Anticipated OG: 1.050 Plato: 12.31
Anticipated EBC: 22.5
Anticipated IBU: 29.3
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
48.4 3.10 kg. Weyermann Munich I Germany 1.038 15
36.3 2.33 kg. Bairds Pilsener Great Britian 1.036 4
12.1 0.78 kg. Weyermann Melanoidin Germany 1.037 70
3.2 0.21 kg. Weyermann Caramunich III Germany 1.037 140

Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
28.00 g. Hallertau Northern Brewer Pellet 8.50 26.1 60 min.
14.48 g. Perle WCB Plug 3.20 2.4 30 min.
7.24 g. Hallertauer WCB Plug 2.50 0.5 15 min.
7.24 g. Hallertauer WCB Plug 2.50 0.3 5 min.

As far as yeast goes I have WY2633 oktoberfest blend I was going to try or WY2124 but I think the 2124 woudld be wrong for the style

Any comments on this recipe

Ausdb
 

JasonY

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I have grabbed some carared from TWOC before I am sure, it was only a 500g bag and it looked fairly old. That said I think Roy now has all the Weyerman malts so give him a shot.

Not sure about that much melanoidin malt, the 1.5kg sounds like a hell of a lot. I have only ever used 250g but dont let that stop you as I am no expert on it other than having the impression that a little goes a long way.

60EBC does sound too dark and I would keep the combined specialties to < 20% as you hinted with more xtal than melanoidin.

Make sure you save a stubbie for a perth gathering!
 

Guest Lurker

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All I could add is that melanoidin is the strongest flavour to me in rooftop red. The highest I have used is 6% melanoidin, and it tastes like a lot more than that brew did, so I reckon somewhere between 10 and 20%.
 

ausdb

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JasonY said:
That said I think Roy now has all the Weyerman malts so give him a shot.

Not sure about that much melanoidin malt, the 1.5kg sounds like a hell of a lot.

60EBC does sound too dark and I would keep the combined specialties to < 20% as you hinted with more xtal than melanoidin.

Make sure you save a stubbie for a perth gathering!
[post="71604"][/post]​
I thought it would become a trip down to Roys, good to see he carries weyermann now I like their malts. This also looks like being my Sandgroptoberfest brew and possibly lager comp brew all in one!

I thought the 1.5kg was a bit ott so the one at the bottom of the page had a lot less

Guest Lurker said:
All I could add is that melanoidin is the strongest flavour to me in rooftop red. The highest I have used is 6% melanoidin, and it tastes like a lot more than that brew did, so I reckon somewhere between 10 and 20%.
[post="71609"][/post]​
GL I thought it was pretty melanoidiny (is that a new word?) tasting as well. Just for a reference I dug up the recipe from my offering to the sandpeoples case last year (below). It does not look all that far away from what I have just come up with, colourwise it was a deep copper colour not really red.

It was malty, biscuity, moreish (to quote deebee I think) and a bit underattenuated due to a stuff up with ferment temps

I will try Roy tomorrow for the carared if I get it I will drop the melanoidin back a bit and put some of the carared in instead

Nockedoverfest
Recipe Specifics
----------------
Batch Size (L): 25.00 Wort Size (L): 25.00
Total Grain (kg): 6.15
Anticipated OG: 1.060 Plato: 14.67
Anticipated EBC: 22.3
Anticipated IBU: 24.6
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Grain/Extract/Sugar
% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
4.1 0.25 kg. Weyermann Melanoidin Germany 1.037 70
6.5 0.40 kg. Weyermann Caramunich III Germany 1.037 140
24.4 1.50 kg. Coopers LME - Light Australia 1.038 7
32.5 2.00 kg. Pilsner Australia 1.037 3
32.5 2.00 kg. Munich Malt Australia 1.038 12

Hops
Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
45.00 g. Hallertauer Pellet 4.00 22.6 60 min.
15.00 g. Hallertauer Pellet 4.00 2.0 15 min.
10.00 g. Hallertauer Pellet 4.00 0.0 0 min.

Extras
0.18 Oz Irish Moss Fining 15 Min.(boil)

Yeast
-----
WYeast 2308 Munich Lager
 

Guest Lurker

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Darryn

As it happens, I was buying some stuff from Grain and Grape (NASA burner), thought I might as well fill the box up, since it was mostly the stand, and bought 1 kg of carared to use one day. But I have 4 brews lined up, none of which use it, so if you dont find any at TWOC you are welcome to some/all of it, just replace it when and if I find a brew I need it for.
 

ausdb

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Guest Lurker said:
As it happens, I was buying some stuff from Grain and Grape (NASA burner), thought I might as well fill the box up, since it was mostly the stand, and bought 1 kg of carared to use one day.
[post="71623"][/post]​
Thanks GL I will see how I go tomorrow

I wish I knew you were getting a NASA sent over I was thinking of getting one as well. The blowtorch is a bit much for 25L batches! How much did they sting you for postage?
 

Guest Lurker

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ausdb said:
Thanks GL I will see how I go tomorrow

I wish I knew you were getting a NASA sent over I was thinking of getting one as well. The blowtorch is a bit much for 25L batches! How much did they sting you for postage?
[post="71631"][/post]​
I had the invoice here, but the other night after a few beers I decided Fleur didnt need to know how much I spent on that one, put it somewhere secret and...you guessed it, now I cant find it so I have no idea. But whatever it was was worth it, did a double brew day yesterday and it really sped the day up.
 

ausdb

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Guest Lurker said:
I had the invoice here, but the other night after a few beers I decided Fleur didnt need to know how much I spent on that one, put it somewhere secret and...you guessed it, now I cant find it so I have no idea.
[post="71633"][/post]​
Aah the good old creative accounting I like playing that game.
Ms Ausdb had a fit when she saw I had spent $600 on the visa card to buy the yeast tubes. It took a lot of explaining to her that I had only really spent about $40 and the rest was all coming back!
 

colinw

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Rooftop Red is an interesting beer to try and clone. Despite its obviously over-the-top usage of melanoidin & cara- malts, it is reasonably well attenuated. When I stick a sample of it in my refractometer I get a reading of 8 brix, which for normal gravity brews is in the 1.008 - 1.014 range depending on OG (can't be more precise without knowing OG, but could work backwards from %ABV and brix reading).

I really doubt Rooftop Red is anywhere near 60 EBC. 60 EBC is over 20SRM, which is closer to the deep ruby / almost black of a Tooheys Old or a Coopers Dark Ale. I make Rooftop Red as more like 13 or 14 SRM, just a bit darker than a Kilkenny (which is in the 11-12 ballpark).

I absolutely hated this beer on first taste, but I had just been partaking of LCPA and my own 40 IBU+ APA immediately before hand, so it came across as cloying, sweet and entirely lacking in hops after these beers. When I re-tried it with a fresh palate, I was surprised to find a clean, malty and quite pleasant session lager with a distinctive malty aroma - not a bad effort for an Aussie commercial brewery, but definitely appealing to people who aren't hopheads. My brother-in-law loves the stuff, and it is for him that I am considering brewing a batch.

My thoughts for a Rooftop Red clone recipe are along these lines:

For 22 litres at my usual efficiency:

- 3.7kg Joe White Export Pilsner Malt
- 230g Melaniodin Malt
- 1kg Weyermann CaraRed
- 60g Roast Barley (for colour, added immediately before sparge)

Infusion mash - 60 minutes at 64 degrees C.

Sparge 27 litres to boil down to 22.

- 40g Hallertauer Mittelfrueh (4.7%) @ 60 minutes
- 10g Hallertauer Mittelfrueh (4.7%) @ 15 minutes
- 10g Hallertauer Hersbrucker @ end

Colour = 13 SRM
OG = 1.049
Bitterness = 26 IBUs

2 sachets Saflager S-189, rehydrated, attemperated and pitched at 15C. Ferment at 10-12C.

S-189 is highly attenuative - I got a 1.061 OG Maerzen down to 1.012 with it. With this grain bill & mash temperature I'd be hoping to ferment down to around 1.013-1.014 for 4.6%-4.8% ABV.

That is my best guess as to how to get in the ballpark anyway. Take it with a grain of salt, as I haven't brewed this yet, but plan to soon.

cheers,
Colin
 

Gough

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Colinw,

Just out of interest, my first taste of the Rooftop Red Lager was in January, on tap at the Australian Hotel in Sydney. It was also immediately after a pint of LCPA and like you I thought "Yuk!!" Cloying and bland at the same time if that's possible. Maybe 'yuk' is too strong, just that I couldn't see what the fuss was about and resolved not to bother with it again. They were selling it by the bucket though...

Last week my local bottlo got a carton in to try and I bought a bottle. Much better beer, not something I'd really seek out, but an enjoyable drop from one of the big brewers. So given that's both of us with a similar experience either a. LCPA clashes badly with Rooftop Red or
b. Rooftop Red has improved with time/tweaking of the recipe.

Maybe a bit of both?? Either way, an interesting beer for CUB to be brewing...

Good luck with the recipes.

Shawn.
 

colinw

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To be fair, after LCPA and even more assertive homebrewed APAs, anything malt or yeast accented tastes like crap. That much bitterness and American "C" hops tend to fatigue the palate. I'd probably get the same effect if I went from my current 40+ IBU APA to the 14 IBU hefeweizen on another tap. For this reason, I tend to go from malt/yeast accented beers through to hoppy ones when having a session, starting on the low bitterness ones like wheats, then moving to the malt accented ales (brown, irish red), and finishing on the bigger, hoppier & more bitter beers.

Rooftop Red may not be to all of our tastes, and I think many homebrewers tastes are skewed to hops while overlooking the delights of malt, but to me it shows a welcome trend toward experimentation in the craftbrew subsidiaries of the majors. For ANY commercial outfit owned by CUB to be putting out a well crafted brew with is assertively malty, and actually mentions specific grades of specialty grains on the label, is unprecedented in this country. We should be doing more to encourage it.

cheers,
Colin
 

beersom

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It is based on a Vienna lager , so I would tend to be using Vienna as my base malt.
 

warrenlw63

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colinw said:
Rooftop Red may not be to all of our tastes, and I think many homebrewers tastes are skewed to hops
[post="71933"][/post]​
Think you're speaking a little unfairly for "many homebrewers" you'll probably find Colin that many hombrewers are most like you and tend to "run the gamut" in beer flavours. I love hoppy IPAs and APAs. However I also love Scotch, Mild Ales, Belgians and Weizens.

That's the beauty of making your own... You can make what you wish. Hoppy one week, malty the next. However nicely balanced is good too.

BTW Palate fatigue is easily cured by salty foods or water. ;)

Warren -
(Not really one of the many homebrewers)
 

ausdb

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colinw said:
I really doubt Rooftop Red is anywhere near 60 EBC. 60 EBC is over 20SRM, which is closer to the deep ruby / almost black of a Tooheys Old or a Coopers Dark Ale. I make Rooftop Red as more like 13 or 14 SRM, just a bit darker than a Kilkenny (which is in the 11-12 ballpark).

My thoughts for a Rooftop Red clone recipe are along these lines:
- 3.7kg Joe White Export Pilsner Malt
- 230g Melaniodin Malt
- 1kg Weyermann CaraRed
- 60g Roast Barley (for colour, added immediately before sparge)
[post="71917"][/post]​
Thanks Colin
I definately didnt think it was that dark either, I sent them an email questioning it it will be interesting to see if I get a reply.

Would you really go with 1kg of the carared? and does the roast barley add any flavour when added at sparge I have never tried that before.

Cheers Ausdb
 

colinw

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warrenlw63 said:
Think you're speaking a little unfairly for "many homebrewers" ...
[post="72035"][/post]​
No offence meant, just having a bit of a dig :) There's a few hop-heads up here in our club - its much more common to get great hoppy beers than great malty beers at our meeting. In fact, I can only think of ONE maerzen/oktoberfest I've ever tried at a club meeting which captured that German malt character.

ausdb said:
Would you really go with 1kg of the carared? and does the roast barley add any flavour when added at sparge I have never tried that before.
[post="72039"][/post]​
Weyermann's website says "up to 20%" for CaraRed. I must admit I have reservations, although my experience with the German caramalts is they don't add sweetness and body to beer to nearly the same degree as comparable additions of UK or Australian crystal malts would. There's no way I'd go over 5% with UK (Bairds or Fawcett's) Crystal or Joe White crystal for that matter, but I've gone as high as 10% with Weyermann Cara- malts and still had crisp & dry beers.

As a matter of necessity, I was going to have to reduce that in my attempt, as when I checked I only have about 750g of CaraRed left. At this stage I'm undecided as to whether to make up the difference with CaraHell, or just use more Pilsner Malt or some Munich.

Roast Barley at 1% will add a subtle toasty character, but no overt burnt flavours. Adding late will reduce that further. I commonly use this amount in "Irish Red" session beers, and the roast flavour fades completely into the background against the contribution of crystal malts.

If you're worried about getting a roasty flavour, try upping the amount to 100g of so, but performing a 24-hour cold water steep. That will add colour but very little burnt flavour, maybe some coffee notes.

cheers,
Colin
 

Beer Krout

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Hi Guys

How did the rooftop turn out?
Did you get the red colour?
Was 20% German crystal too much malt?
I'm interested in brewing this for a friend

Cheers
Brettt
 

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