Brew In A Bucket Why Not Indeed

[ShredMaster]

Well the way I'm doing it is really a single "vessel" system...

The HLT = Kettle, it is HLT until the mash bucket goes in, then it becomes a "mash tun" and when you take the mash bucket out it becomes the kettle.

You can't really call the mash bucket a "vessel", it's full of holes and holds no water!


I can't understand the confusion tbh, all that has happened is that the bag has been replaced with a bucket and a bunch of lads are mucking around tweaking it...

 

[MarkBastard]

and this method would reqiure,if i read it right a - bucket(mash tun) pot full of hot water (hlt), kettle(kettle). i have used biab for several years and have nothing against it but this is sounding more and more like a 3v system to me. biab is about the cheap and easy entry level and absolute simplicity of use. each and every 'innovation' seems to go against this and closer to 'traditional' 3v systems imo. my only FEAR is that these new systems are more complicated than the system they are intended to replace.

You didn't read it right.

This method requires:
- Kettle
- Bucket (if this is a vessel then so is a bag)

That's it. It's exactly the same process as BIAB. Where it differs is that BIAB almost always is used with a sky hook, or an additional vessel to hang the bag over to collect more wort. This system would almost always be used with a device that suspends the bucket over the urn. It could also be a skyhook, but it has much more flexibility than BIAB in that you could use wooden supports, or metal hooks or whatever else to keep it above the urn. You could even just stick a wire rack on the urn, then the bucket on top of the wire rack if you had an extra set of hands in the brewery.

I'm wondering about these BIAB purists that don't use a hook to suspend the bag and don't stick the bag in an additional vessel. What to they do? One of the following, all of which sound stupid or infeasible:
1 - Pull the bag out and hold it there with their arms until it fully drains (15-20 minutes) or have a secondary brewer to squeeze while they're holding it to shorten the time needed.
2 - Pull the bag out and just chuck it straight into a bin or whatever and waste the wort that's still in the grain, requiring more grain to start with or being happier with really really bad efficiency.

 

[MarkBastard]

I can't understand the confusion tbh, all that has happened is that the bag has been replaced with a bucket and a bunch of lads are mucking around tweaking it...

It is seriously doing my head in that people aren't grasping this concept.

 

[1975sandman]

It is seriously doing my head in that people aren't grasping this concept.

I agree with you on that one MB. The whole idea seems pretty simple to me as well. If I didn't have a 3v setup already, I would seriously give your idea a go.

Keep up the experimentation! :icon_cheers:

My 2c worth.....(if it means much)

 

[MarkBastard]

My 2c worth.....(if it means much)

Honestly, it means the world to me.

 

[stux]

Problem with BIAB ... cloudy wort, messy bag/lifting.

Problem solved ... what will the multi-vessel folk have to whinge about that their method is superior? Nothing.

Hence the FEAR.

"but you will still need a skyhook, or big pulley/winch/ratchet setup, which is a huge outlay and permanent residential modification! Much easier to build a 3 tier stand out of angle and a few welds and casters"

 

[argon]

I'm wondering about these BIAB purists that don't use a hook to suspend the bag and don't stick the bag in an additional vessel. What to they do? One of the following, all of which sound stupid or infeasible:

Although i'm not a BIAB purist, nor a current BIABer... i'm in full support of the tweaking you guys are doing. I've always seen it as just a straight replacement of bag for a bucket... simple. It's funny that other people can't see it.

When i used to BIAB, i used to just put the bag on top of the cake rack (that was once in the keggle) in the big w pot. Tried a couple of times with a hook... was a PITA. Easier just to pick it up, with one hand, take the rack out with the other then put both in the pot. That way the bag could drain and i'd capture the wort. You could just as easily do that with the bucket.

Alwyas amazed me that people couldn't hold 10kg in the air for a few seconds and needed a hook. Honestly, how do you function being that pissweak?

 

[Nick JD]

but you will still need a skyhook, or big pulley/winch/ratchet setup...

Lift bucket out of kettle ... slide in rack (or support bolts through holes ala braumeister) ... put bucket on rack ... pour yourself a beer while it drains, or perhaps even pour some hot water through it.

Personally, I'm wondering what sized bucket will fit in my 19L pot, and most importantly, can I get it in green?

 

[argon]

Lift bucket out of kettle ... slide in rack ... put bucket on rack ... pour yourself a beer while it drains...???. profit

fixed

 

[MarkBastard]

Although i'm not a BIAB purist, nor a current BIABer... i'm in full support of the tweaking you guys are doing. I've always seen it as just a straight replacement of bag for a bucket... simple. It's funny that other people can't see it.

When i used to BIAB, i used to just put the bag on top of the cake rack (that was once in the keggle) in the big w pot. Tried a couple of times with a hook... was a PITA. Easier just to pick it up, with one hand, take the rack out with the other then put both in the pot. That way the bag could drain and i'd capture the wort. You could just as easily do that with the bucket.

Alwyas amazed me that people couldn't hold 10kg in the air for a few seconds and needed a hook. Honestly, how do you function being that pissweak?

I think the people that use hooks do so as an alternative to using an additional vessel to collect the run off from the bag. I mean if you think about it, taking the bag from the kettle and putting it into an additional vessel, and then manually pouring from that additional vessel into the kettle is a bit of an over the top process. It's not hard or anything but it also seems a bit silly. If you think about it, with your prior method, you could have had a bucket with a tap instead of your second pot, and chucked the bag in that, then had it at a level higher than the kettle and allowed it to drain through the tap back into the kettle while raising the wort to boil.

The guys using the hook are just suspending the bag above their kettle so that it drains into the kettle instead of into an additional vessel. It makes sense to me, provided you have the hook or the ability to easily install one. I suppose a pully system is what you wouldn't understand, but I could see the benefit in it as if the pot was perfectly position, the pully should be able to seamlessly pull the bag upwards at a slower and steadier pace to ensure there's no wort overflow problems with the bag. When I do it by hand sometimes I get drips down the side of the urn and even a sort of suction effect as the bag leaves the urn which is a pain in the arse / causes a mess.

 

[MarkBastard]

Lift bucket out of kettle ... slide in rack (or support bolts through holes ala braumeister) ... put bucket on rack ... pour yourself a beer while it drains, or perhaps even pour some hot water through it.

Personally, I'm wondering what sized bucket will fit in my 19L pot, and most importantly, can I get it in green?

Yeah it sounds pretty easy. You can't do that with BIAB because the bag would flatten out to be wider than the urn. The rigidity of the bucket stops that from happening. Also if you do want to rinse the grain you can do so very easily by just adding hot water to the bucket and letting it drain more.

 

[Nick JD]

fixed

:lol:

I've spent less on my brewing equipment than most 3V brewers spent on their last anal bleaching.

 

[MarkBastard]

Actual real life LOL's

 

[1975sandman]

I reckon MB you should just keep on doing what you are doing and posting the results as some people are interested in how it turns out. Nothing wrong with a little experimentation.

 

[pk.sax]

It's like what women do. They'll mess around with 10 things in a shop, buy 3 and return 2 in a couple of days. Could've just decided right there in the shop that it won't fit! **** this, didn't sign up for abuse. Was just discussing how the amount of equipment and process is snowballing wrt simple pot voile and green bucket to drain bag bs the actual benefit to the beer and it's become an issue. All that 2v I've got fits in a little heap in the corner. Only reason I don't do it at home is I haven't got a tap point handy anywhere that I can set it up on the balcony to allow me easy access to water. I didn't ask for the judging.

 

[adniels3n]

I have a BIBOD experiment going at the moment. Bucket In Bucket Of Death. Spatter guard bottom in a Handi Pail, sitting in a 2nd Handi Pail with a STC-1000 controlled kettle element, all wrapped in a camping mat. Also we don't have a shop in town that knows what voile is, which limits bag making abilities.

 

[Bribie G]

Brew now underway (the jugged not pump version) and I've taken a few shots but the camera needs recharging so I'll post a wee gallery later on.
So far, prepared the bucket
Prepared the urn and strike liquor as per BIAB, having positioned the urn and bucket under the skyhook accurately then hoisted bucket up out of the way.

Lower bucket into strike liquor and check temperature
Dough in - needed to tickle the mash temp up 1.5 using my immersion wand to get 66 - more about this later.
I'd lagged the urn with a windscreen waffle protector, water in the outer jacket is at 68 and inner at 66 and I betcha we'll get less temp drop than a standard BIAB brew.
Timer set
Have a pint or two. So far easy as.

Today's recipe:

Yorkshire Gold Keg size Brew 21L to get 20L into cube and end up with a cornie after yeast loss

4500 Bairds Perle
300 sugar
40 Challenger 60 mins
20 Bobek 10 mins
1469 at 17

Pics to follow

 

[Thirsty Boy]

ok, why is it that this is a BIAB vs 3V argument? its not. I dont know about other people, but I'm certainly not arguing that. i think that 3V and BIAB are roughly equivalent - both have good points that the other misses and visa versa. this is about what one or two brewers are proposing to do, and the good vs bad potential of their specific intended tecnique. its not a ******* philospophical arguament - its just a discussion of the potential good and bad aspects of a specific technique that is being proposed.

The bucket with a false bottom is NOT a direct substitute for a bag - if you think it is, I'm sorry, but that just demonstrates that you have **** all idea what you are talking about. There are a number of people who have replaced "bags" with solid mesh cylinders - thats a driect replacement! and quite frankly, if you cant see where the two things are different, **** you, you really really don't know what you are talking about and i dont care if you disagree with that, its because you are ill informed. Do some ******* research or just find a brewing guru to listen to, technical debate is beyond you.

I'm sick of being nice about this - I've tried to avoid saying in my not so discreet way, what Spillsmostofit said in his typically understated kind of way --- if you find the bag hard, you're doing it wrong. Its easy, I can do it easily, if you cant - its because you dont do it like me, you should and then it would be easy. You can bitch and moan all you like, but i have an easy, efficient and short brewday using BIAB. If you dont its because i am right and you are wrong.

seriously - i've really tried to be even handed and reasonable aboout this. But I'm sorry - all i can see is tools who have taken an inherrently simple process, made it it hard, then bitched about how hard it is. ****!!! BIAB is easy! if you find it hard, thats you - just you - not the process - you.

Thats what all the debate is about - not people who genuinely think that there is genuinely something to discuss, just people who were trying to dance around the issue of them thinking you are ******* it up and trying to break the news to you gently. Bum doesn't play that game, ever. I do, but I've had enough - **** you, you're wrong. One of these days you'll actually know enough to know why you're wrong, but given what I've seen so far - it'll be a while before you're even at that point.

Mark - once again - surely finally... your intended tecnique is fine, reasonably good even. Just not the absolute best! Can you live with that? Because thats all anyone is saying, even given my current frustration, thats all I'm saying. It WILL WORK. I just cant be bothered pretending that i empathise with the reasoning anymore, the technical merit remains unchanged.

 

[felten]

 

[DUANNE]

You didn't read it right.

This method requires:
- Kettle
- Bucket (if this is a vessel then so is a bag)

That's it. It's exactly the same process as BIAB. Where it differs is that BIAB almost always is used with a sky hook, or an additional vessel to hang the bag over to collect more wort. This system would almost always be used with a device that suspends the bucket over the urn. It could also be a skyhook, but it has much more flexibility than BIAB in that you could use wooden supports, or metal hooks or whatever else to keep it above the urn. You could even just stick a wire rack on the urn, then the bucket on top of the wire rack if you had an extra set of hands in the brewery.

I'm wondering about these BIAB purists that don't use a hook to suspend the bag and don't stick the bag in an additional vessel. What to they do? One of the following, all of which sound stupid or infeasible:
1 - Pull the bag out and hold it there with their arms until it fully drains (15-20 minutes) or have a secondary brewer to squeeze while they're holding it to shorten the time needed.
2 - Pull the bag out and just chuck it straight into a bin or whatever and waste the wort that's still in the grain, requiring more grain to start with or being happier with really really bad efficiency.

so the advantage of this is simply so you can avoid the use of a hook or piece of rope? i can see some sense in that just. im not sure were in the thread i read it or if i even did but was under the belief that the bucket was to enable a way of recirculating the wort for a clearer wort into the kettle and allowing a sparge if believed neccasary in witch case i still stand by earlier comments.